Good clarification, Aslow --- yes, some of us work on a piece of music like a painter --- a dab here, a dab there, ending up with months of dabbing to build up a composition.   Nothing is 'preconceived" and entered in a long stream, except where simply sequencing existing material.  

Thanks, it is getting clearer....   perhaps two enable/disable options then: "Use existing MIDI clip(s)" along with "display clip boundaries"?    I changed Aslow's description slightly because manually entering notes in the PRV isn't really "recording" per se.   Same idea though in the end. 
 

KPerry
In which case, I have no idea what you want - I propose an option to *not* group notes into clips but to leave one note per clip, which is apparently what you want, and you say you then need to add an extra step.  Makes no sense at all.

I didn't explain properly. No clips at all unless the user wants it. Not even single note clips.
 
Try free your mind from the necessity of clips.
To imagine this, open the PRV and turn off View>Show Clip Outlines. Now the clips are invisible. That is how the world looked before clips were invented.
 
My point is:
Clips are good. But clips a convenience, no more. They make it easier to move events together in a group. The user should be allowed to group notes/events only if needed.
 
Instead Sonar requires EVERYTHING to be in clips.
And worse, Sonar tries to guess which clips to put your stuff into and inevitably gets it wrong, meaning extra work unpicking the mess Sonar has made.

Here is another scenario: The opening 4 bars of 2001 Space Odyssey (3 long notes).
I play the 3 notes on my keyboard using a trumpet sound.
 
The first, lowest note starts at bar 1 and extends for 4 bars.
The second starts at bar 2 and extends for 3 bars.
The third at 3 for 2 bars.
 
Now I want the lowest note to be played on another track with a pipe organ sound.
 
 Sonar has already decided to put all 3 notes into a clip. I do not want this. So I have to:
1) Split the clip between bars 1 and 2,
2) Drag the left clip into the pipe organ track
3) Extend the length of the clip to 4 bars, revealing the fact that it has also copied the other 2 notes
4) Delete the other two excess notes.
 
If clips were optional, I could:
1) On the lowest note do Rightmouse>Choose "Group notes in a Clip". Yes, I have created a single-note clip! :)
2) Drag it into my pipe organ track.

Folks often suggest the following workaround:
Select everything in a bar, bounce, then snip the result into clips as required.
 
This is already problematic if you have song sections that overlap, as I have described with my "Blueberry Hill" example.
 
And it is only possible to do the first time around.
 
Because if you later come back to do editing, adding bits, replay a bar or two, you again end up with Sonar's automated clipping algorithm. Bouncing everything now will destroy previous work. You have no option but to unpick the pre-emptive clipping Sonar insists on doing.

jpetersen
Now I want the lowest note to be played on another track with a pipe organ sound.
 
 Sonar has already decided to put all 3 notes into a clip. I do not want this. So I have to:
1) Split the clip between bars 1 and 2,
2) Drag the left clip into the pipe organ track
3) Extend the length of the clip to 4 bars, revealing the fact that it has also copied the other 2 notes
4) Delete the other two excess notes.
 
If clips were optional, I could:
1) On the lowest note do Rightmouse>Choose "Group notes in a Clip". Yes, I have created a single-note clip! :)
2) Drag it into my pipe organ track.

Sorry, but I will ask one more time:
 
Why you do not (want to) cut the first note and paste it into organ track? You can control how it is places, as new clip or into existing clip.
 
While as you could see I more or less understand some problems, your examples still puzzle me...

Because it's quicker. 2 steps instead of 4. It's easier to understand if you try the steps yourself.
 
In fact, I tried it and discovered the original note stays hidden in the clip in the first track. If you stretch the beginning of the clip back to the original starting point, the first note reappears. So if you decide later to add another note in the bar before this one, Sonar will automatically stretch the clip to include the new note, and suddenly the note you thought you had clipped out and moved away is back again! So you have to stretch the clip and delete the first note from the original clip - 5 steps in total.
 
Try it. You'll see.
 
Now imagine doing this, day in, day out, over many projects. I am so tired of it.
 
>> You can control how it is places, as new clip or into existing clip.
I don't understand what you mean, sorry.

You responded to the situation I mentioned when a bar has notes that should be grouped into 2 different clips, verse and chorus and the notes are mixed in that bar ("Blueberry Hill").
 
Your suggestion was:
 
1) split at second bar
2) in PRV, select and cut notes from the first bar which are from chorus
3) lock verse clip
4) paste notes, that creates new clip
5) merge this new clip with chorus
 
You are right, of course. But so much work?
It would be so much faster just to lasso those notes that belong to the verse and do Rightmouse>"Group notes in a Clip". Then lasso those for the chorus and do the same. Done.
 
But for this to be possible, Sonar must stop automatically putting events in clips. Sonar does not know the difference between a Verse and a Chorus. Only a human does. So let the human do it.
 
I tried WilliamCopper's example. In the event view, I added a program change event.
And exactly like he said, Sonar put it in one of the existing clips. So now, if I move the notes in that clip, I also move the program change! Why does Sonar think I want to do that? So I have to snip out the program change, move it away, bounce the two clips to close the hole, go to the clip with the program change and remove all the notes that are still in it - and FINALLY I have a clip with only the program change. And all I wanted was a program change at bar 21. I don't even need a clip for that.
 
Clips are supposed to help. But they don't.
 
Sometimes I feel as if I am the only person using midi in Sonar. I really do.
 
 

jpetersen
Because it's quicker. 2 steps instead of 4. It's easier to understand if you try the steps yourself.
 
In fact, I tried it and discovered the original note stays hidden in the clip in the first track. If you stretch the beginning of the clip back to the original starting point, the first note reappears. So if you decide later to add another note in the bar before this one, Sonar will automatically stretch the clip to include the new note, and suddenly the note you thought you had clipped out and moved away is back again! So you have to stretch the clip and delete the first note from the original clip - 5 steps in total.
 
Try it. You'll see.
 
Now imagine doing this, day in, day out, over many projects. I am so tired of it.
 

Try this instead...   Assuming all three notes are in the same clip, drag across measure one (right-left or left-right) so that portion of the four bar MIDI clip is selected.  Now Ctrl+Drag that region down to the destination MIDI track.    I think that might also work for the other two notes. 
 
 
 

jpetersen
You responded to the situation I mentioned when a bar has notes that should be grouped into 2 different clips, verse and chorus and the notes are mixed in that bar ("Blueberry Hill").
 
Your suggestion was:
 
1) split at second bar
2) in PRV, select and cut notes from the first bar which are from chorus
3) lock verse clip
4) paste notes, that creates new clip
5) merge this new clip with chorus
 
You are right, of course. But so much work?
It would be so much faster just to lasso those notes that belong to the verse and do Rightmouse>"Group notes in a Clip". Then lasso those for the chorus and do the same. Done.

Ok, I have got it
My "philosophy" is just a bit different in such cases. I first do split approximately at parts changes, still in the track view. Than (not always immediately) open PRV to adjust on note level. But I agree, when looking in total that is slower.
 
So, lets return to the "fast" methods: after you have selected chorus notes, position "Now" at first one (one click), "Ctrl-X", select verse (one click, may be croping its length if desired), "Alt-E" (my current binding to lock click), "Ctrl+V" create chorus by pasting, "Alt-E" (unlock verse). 2 shortcuts more vs verse notes selection. I think a good deal.