2016/02/09 13:28:41
Jeff Evans
I believe the ideal iTunes level is -16 LUFS.  So for a track that is consistent most of the way through a K-14 dB rms master is very close to that level so go with that.
 
Masters way down at -24 dB rms are too low for iTunes.  You are depending on them adding gain.  At around -14 dB rms then no gain needs to be added or removed, it should be about right.
 
No client I have ever worked for Bats would accept a -24 dB rms master either for CD. Way too soft.  As a mastering engineer you would not get away with it.  I agree it would be nice but not possible just yet.
 
No harm in doing a pre master at -24 rms though. ( I usually stick with -20 the K standard) but you have that as a pre mastered file.  So your pre mastered file might be -20 or -24 and even 96K/24 bit but for iTunes make it into a 44.1K/16 bit K-14 file for distribution.
 
Read the Bob Katz book on Mastering for iTunes. That Apple article on mastering for iTunes is not helpful.  In 10 pages it still does not mention the most important bit of information which is at what level rms (or LUFS) do they start adding or subtracting gain.  I believe it -16.5 LUFS.  For consistent level tracks a K-14 master is around -16 LUFS usually so it is a good reference to shoot for.  Tracks at -11 db rms are starting to get loud and iTunes will be shaving gain off.  A good thing to do is to import the tracks into iTunes and switch on 'Sound Check'  It basically does the same sort of thing.
2016/02/09 15:02:00
batsbrew
Jeff Evans
 
No client I have ever worked for Bats would accept a -24 dB rms master either for CD. Way too soft.  As a mastering engineer you would not get away with it.  I agree it would be nice but not possible just yet.
 
 



just for clarification:
 
"i mix 24 bit files to about -22db RMS,
and about -6 to -8 for peaks.
 
that is an UNMASTERED final stereo bounce."
2016/02/09 17:14:31
Jeff Evans
Yes Bats I know what you are saying.  You are talking Pre Master.  But I have tried the concept of uploading a very quiet master to iTunes eg -20 etc and it did not make it as loud as a very loud master so that is a bit of a myth.  It was loud and OK but still not as loud as say a -16 LUFS master is.
 
My advice is do not depend on iTunes to turn your master up.  Rather get them to turn it down but not by much.  So as I mentioned before a K-14 or -16 LUFS master is right in the ballk park for iTunes to not do much at all to your level.
2016/02/09 21:43:25
kennywtelejazz
Has anyone here w a Mac actually used the Mastered for i Tunes applet for getting an Idea on how your tune will sound ? 
 
Kenny
2016/02/10 09:54:39
olemon
batsbrew
you don't allow someone to master an already mastered file.
that ruins it.



Were you directing that comment at me?  CD Baby is not mastering my wave file, just converting it.  They prefer a wave as opposed to an mp3.  It's my assumption that they perform a similar conversion for iTunes.
 
A local radio station is going to broadcast a couple of my songs and interview me about songwriting and home-studio recording.  I already sent them a cd on which I kept the levels around -1.5 to -1.0 dBFS.  I'm wondering if that's going to be okay.  Perhaps I should start a new thread.
2016/02/10 10:00:28
batsbrew
radio stations have their own limiters they put everything thru.
 
if you have a 'hot' mastered file,
it will sound wimpy and crushed when put thru the radio station equipment.
2016/02/10 10:02:46
batsbrew
Jeff Evans
Yes Bats I know what you are saying.  You are talking Pre Master.  But I have tried the concept of uploading a very quiet master to iTunes eg -20 etc and it did not make it as loud as a very loud master so that is a bit of a myth.  It was loud and OK but still not as loud as say a -16 LUFS master is.
 
My advice is do not depend on iTunes to turn your master up.  Rather get them to turn it down but not by much.  So as I mentioned before a K-14 or -16 LUFS master is right in the ballk park for iTunes to not do much at all to your level.


they must have some kind of 'range' of dynamic control they apply to it..
again, it's so vague, as to not bother with it.
 
2016/02/10 13:16:49
Danny Danzi
I'm the odd man on this one, but I personally master for the song and have never paid attention to iTunes or any other online site. I've never noticed any issues with my masters for people other than when any encoding below 192 is used for mp3's. Anything 192 and above, and I hear no differences that make me wish I had taken another approach.
 
In my personal opinion, I do not believe the actual dB reading is the issue. I can squash the heck out of something and keep a sane level....and that is where you will hear changes when something is encoded. If you don't kill the compression and literally master for the song as far as loudness goes without killing your limiter threshold, none of the final output volumes have made a difference negatively.
 
For example, it is rare for me to go louder than -4.5 to -5 on my limiter threshold and I like to keep things at -0.3 to -1 depending on what may sound better for the song. Years ago it was nothing for me to slam -6.8 to -7 on the limiter threshold. The more you comp the mix and squash the life out of it, the more encoding will kill it no matter who does the encoding. For that reason, I honestly never pay attention to final dB numbers unless I specifically have to for a TV or film client etc...or someone that asks for something specific.
 
My advice? Let the music breathe...stop comparing to some of the commercially mixed garbage that caters to loud, lo-def music that only sounds good on earbuds....and you set the example while making people follow you for great fidelity, dynamics and for being yourself. I have a nice little gang of dudes that literally hold some of my mixes as reference mixes. Some of them are higher in the food chain than myself. It's the ultimate pat on the back to have people bench marking their material off of mixes you may have created.
 
Whether I suck as an engineer or am doing things completely wrong or not....I got some people I hold in high regard that think I'm onto something. Don't be afraid to be dynamic and turn up the volume knob. As soon as we remove hyper-compression/limiting from our worlds, all the stupid things I see being debated and discussed on message forums will go away and people will concentrate more on just learning to record with quality, and releasing product faster.
 
Seriously....do you know how many threads get posted on ALL forums about how limiters and final volume outputs are important to people? It shouldn't be important because if you think about it, it's the biggest load of artist stifled creativity ever brought into the marketing world. Seriously think about all the volume related things you have read and how many times you or others you know sat with a mix and tried to get it as loud as something commercial.
 
Then think about how much time was wasted in doing that. No one other than you and any engineers that think they are special for contributing to the loudness/limiter wars will care. Music lovers just want your music. They could give a rats @ss about LUFS, the K system, dB's or how much time was spent loading and re-uploading to iTunes hoping for that magical mix. Keep your volumes sane, your limiting to a minimum or slightly aggressive when need be....and never worry about any of this stuff again. Trust me on this one. :)
 
-Danny
2016/02/12 05:45:19
kennywtelejazz
2 days ago I asked if any one here uses a Mac on occasion and has used the free Mastered for i Tunes  applet ...
I have all this $hit and my focus has been on working in SONAR these days
 
http://www.apple.com/itunes/mastered-for-itunes/
https://www.apple.com/itunes/mastered-for-itunes/docs/mastered_for_itunes.pdf
http://9to5mac.com/2012/02/28/mastering-engineer-proves-mastered-for-itunes-doesnt-sound-closer-to-the-cd/
 
 
 
Rumley............ Ry Cooder happens to like using the applet
 
http://gizmodo.com/231058...o-master-his-new-album
 
cheers ,
 
Kenny
 
 
2016/02/12 10:21:05
robbyk
Danny Danzi
My advice? Let the music breathe....and you set the example while making people follow you for great fidelity, dynamics and for being yourself.
 
Don't be afraid to be dynamic and turn up the volume knob.
 
Keep your volumes sane, your limiting to a minimum or slightly aggressive when need be....and never worry about any of this stuff again. Trust me on this one. :)
 
-Danny



Words to live by, for sure...I think I'll keep a copy of the entire post from Danny on my desk :)
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