I want to compile a CD from tracks (Cakewalk projects) whose songs (final mixes) vary widely in their RMS. All songs were recorded here in 8.5 over the years. I am not a fan of squashed audio, so they are very dynamic and I used a limiter (ozone) only to bring up the final audio to a peak of -0.5 and then export at CD quality.
 
Specifically, at their lowest (ie softest), the RMS is -16.9 and the loudest song has an RMS (from SPAN) of -11.6. I compiled these separate projects onto a CD using Sonar's burn an audio CD. Now when I drive to town to have a listen, my wife is turning up or down the radio volume to hear the quiet songs (solo) vs. the louder ones (band songs). I guess you can kind of think e.g. Neil Young album, quiet piano or solo guitar followed by rockin' with Crazy Horse. But I never have to fiddle with the volume on his CDs.
 
How do I level them out? Just volume automation or bring the loud songs down?
 
I have ozone and IK t-racks c-s thingy and pyro but I have never used these to compile a bunch of tracks together. Would I use these programs (if so, I'd like to use the IK but pyro is OK, just on another pc with XP), or does this indicate I need to go back to my mixes and either squash the loud ones or raise the RMS on the soft ones?
 
Or maybe this indicates I have done something else incorrectly in my mixes?
 
I hope I am asking this correctly because I'm getting no idea from my google of youtube searches on compiling an audio CD.
 
Thanks kindly for any help or references, I am not doing this to create a red book spec'd cd, just my own songs over the years for fun.
 
 

this is called mastering.
 
 

batsbrew
this is called mastering.
 
 

Thanks for the reply.
 
Yes I know that it is largely a mastering issue (or possibly reworking some mixes), so is it too complex for me? Maybe I should I just fold it up and forget it...
 
Again, I'm not creating a red book spec'd CD at this point, I just want to play around with my own music with the tools I have e.g. pyro, IK, etc. and level out some tunes volume or RMS-wise.
 
That is why I am curious, how do the pros do it? Is it additional limiting or envelopes, or both?
 
If it is impossible for me, then OK.

The moment you are talking rms levels you should be also talking VU meters and ones that are real preferably with needles etc.  But there are some good alternate VST'as though such as the Klanghelm meter.
 
I usually end up doing all this fine tuning in a separate editing software like Adobe Audition etc.. Cool Edit Pro..
 
Firstly because I use the K system when I create an album all my tracks are at the same rms level but when there are variations eg from another pre mastered album this is what I do:
 
I open all the tracks up in an editor and then put a VU meter over the tracks one by one.  Now with a VU meter you have to give it a reference level.  eg a good mastering level might be -12 dB FS = 0dB VU.  So when the tracks are sitting around -12 dB rms wise the needle is just swinging nicely up to the 0 dB VU mark.
 
If a track is low it wall fall short. eg a -16 dB rms track will only make -4 on the meter now.  So what I do is hard limit the whole track so that no peaks go over -5 db.  You will find in a low level track like this that not many peaks are hitting that mark anyway.  Then I add 4 dB to the whole track.  The hard limiting prevents any odd peaks from preventing you from adding 4 dB to the whole track.  You certainly wont hear it.  Then the track comes up to a nice 12 dB FS rms level and the peaks are only hitting -1dB which is good for any conversions to mp3.  And now showing 0 dB VU like the others.
 
Loud tracks are going to swing the needle over.  So a loud track eg mastered to -10 dB FS rms will push the needle up to +2 dB VU most of the time.  So I just subtract 2 db of gain from the whole track.  Dont sweat any peaks now because you are lowering the tracks level.  Now the track will be at -12 dB FS rms and the needle should be just swinging nicely up to 0 dB VU like the others.
 
Do this and you will be going a long way to all your tracks being very even in volume and level all the way through. Burn a CD and check.
 
The only thing to watch out for is tracks that only have say guitar and vocal in them.  Even if you get them swinging nice up to the 0 dB VU mark you will find those tracks will sound a little loud compared to the band tracks.  I generally shave off another 2 dB off those types of tracks and then they sit nice against the band tracks.
 
Don't let anyone tell you that adding or subtrcating gain from final mixes is altering the quality.  That is rubbish and I defy anyone to hear the difference in an A/B test.  Remember Cool Edit or Audition is working in 32 bit/64 bit in the background which is often double the 16 bit resolution that the actual track is finally mixed at.  Even a 24 bit track being gain changed at 32 bit resolution won't create any issues either.
 
You need VU meters to do this.  Your peak metering is useless in this mode of operation.  And rms meters that are sitting way down on the scale are also useless.  You need something like the Klanghem meter that is swinging right up to the 0 db VU mark when the track is at the right level.  Then you really see what is going on.

Ok .... I'm gonna take a stab at an answer after reading this on the fly today....I always enjoy reading the posts on the forums and to be honest....i usually just say thanks for sharing the info and not add too much of my novice knowledge as I am still learning so much of the recording/mixing/mastering trade on my lil MC7 (thats music creator 7....the little bro of your big Sonar space ships most are using around here...lol..) setup.   I am soaking it up like Sponge-Bob on crabby patty crack....love this stuff....man the time fly's....ok....so to it now.
  I would think you could import all your songs(tracks) into a project .... play em all at same time and open your mixer and level them (master vol fader) out with compression (if/as needed)....listen to a bit of each on your master bus as they play.  Once ya think ya got em pretty equal.... mix(render?) each song down as a .wav file or whatever format your gonna burn to a cd.....then listen to each of those .wavs a bit before burning the cd to assure you got it dialed in.   
 That said.....there's likely another path to this result im overlooking.   It's pretty basic if your not trying to change all the eq and mix of your material i guess.   ?   appreciate further feedback....just my .02cents at moment  :o)

Jeff Evans
You need VU meters to do this.  Your peak metering is useless in this mode of operation.  And rms meters that are sitting way down on the scale are also useless.  You need something like the Klanghem meter that is swinging right up to the 0 db VU mark when the track is at the right level.  Then you really see what is going on.

 Jeff
 
Thanks kindly for the info, I have long wanted to get the Klanghelm meters largely based on yours and other expert advice in these forums.
 
I have been using SPAN with the RMS and Crest Factor as a guide, but I think I should take the additional step as you suggest. No I know I will get it now :)
 
This is very helpful and I thank you. Perhaps I should get into the whole KMS metering scheme of things. It is really very interesting.
 
I think this is going to be fun and a great exercise in increasing my overall skills (be that as they may be).
 
Batsbrew,
 
Thanks again for your post and based on your suggestion, I will do additional searches tonight on "mastering" as opposed to compiling a CD.

BASSJOKER
 I would think you could import all your songs(tracks) into a project .... play em all at same time and open your mixer and level them (master vol fader) out with compression (if/as needed)....listen to a bit of each on your master bus as they play. 

Well, that is a great idea along what I thought I would do. Place them all in a track or in the IK software and then just use automation to bring down the loud songs.
 
I really don't want to add compression as I'd like to keep the dynamics of the song.
 
But I think now I will go the metering route first...

Just put all your songs in one project.  Use Exclusive Solo to switch back and forth between your songs.  Pick your desired output level and either use the limiter and meter in Ozone to get each of your songs to be as close sonically and meter-wise to what you are shooting for, or use automation on the master bus to level match what you need.  
 
If you have ozone and sonar, you have what you need to get pretty close. 

sven450
Just put all your songs in one project.  Use Exclusive Solo to switch back and forth between your songs.  Pick your desired output level and either use the limiter and meter in Ozone to get each of your songs to be as close sonically and meter-wise to what you are shooting for, or use automation on the master bus to level match what you need.  
 
If you have ozone and sonar, you have what you need to get pretty close. 

Good timing Sven (my Grandfather's name), I was just exploring that, I have them in one project and I was just now going to pick up the Klanghelm meters because I've always really wanted them (I know I don't need them per se and I should just get to work and make music but I am curious and they are inexpensive). Then like you say, I surely have all the tools I need (and more) and the whole idea is to have fun with this and learn some good stuff.
 
So you are suggesting output level and/or automation to match levels.
 
Well thanks again Sven and to all the above for your time and wonderful guidance in this. I really wanted to know how the pros tackle this (it must be very common) even as I charge in willy-nilly with my own notions.
 
Very, very helpful to all and I appreciate it. I am confidant the next time I drive my wife into town, she won't be reaching for the volume knob every three minutes :)

My initial suggestions were based on all the mixes being completely mastered.  Only changing level.  Adding more dynamics processing to a final mastered mix is not a good idea.
 
But on re reading the OP I see if gentle limiting was used on these tracks only to prevent clipping then the tracks are basically unmastered I guess.
 
In that situation Bats is more correct here by saying mastering is actually required.  By that I mean you could in fact use EQ, compression and limiting.  All three of these stages can effectively alter the rms level of a track so then one could be mastering in full all the tracks and adjusting all the tracks that way.
 
One good bit of advice I learned from a great mastering engineer is group all of the tracks together that you intend to put on te CD.  Choose one track out of all of them first and master that one.  Choose a track that has everything in it.  Everything going for it.  Max instruments etc.. Biggest sound etc..  Choose a final reference mastered level and master the track to that level.
 
Then as you master all the rest have this mastered track available in your mastering for the other tracks so that you can switch any of the tracks against it.  It will keep levels and tone more consistent over all the other tracks.  Don't forget good reference tracks either as a comparison.