• SONAR
  • How to lower the volume of the center of a mix to free some room for vocals ? (p.3)
2017/07/06 18:16:48
Vlar
cparmerlee
 
If you want to take it one step further, there are plugins that transparently make room for the vocal by dynamically dipping only conflicting frequencies and leaving everything else alone. 




Can you describe this further: what plugin? Side-chain settings/routing?, etc.?
2017/07/06 21:24:54
bitflipper
The first one I ever saw was Elevayta's Space Boy, a little dated now - AFAIK it was never ported to 64-bit - but still available, and cheap.
 
What I use for this is Meldaproduction's MSpectralDynamics. That's not the main thing MSpectralDynamics does, just one of its more obscure talents. It's also the most transparent one that I've tried.
 
All these plugins work the same way: a sidechain signal is analyzed and its spectrum is inverted for the main signal's EQ. You set it up the same way you'd set up a sidechained compressor.
 
A less-expensive alternative would be MAutoDynamicEQ, which I see is currently on sale for 50 EUR. It's a superb dynamic equalizer (also an excellent all-around EQ) that supports a sidechain input, and it's also adept at EQ-matching and (more helpful) EQ inversion, e.g. analyzing a signal and inverting its spectrum to apply to another signal.
 
Another one is Fabfilter's Pro-MB. It's a cross between a dynamic EQ and a multiband compressor. For carving EQ, you want to be sure it's in Minimum Phase mode.
 
 
2017/07/06 22:21:34
Jeff Evans
The best way to keep vocals audible is to have a look at the music and carefully look at what is playing behind the vocals while the vocals are present.  Pull out anything that looks like it might conflict with the vocals.  Or turn it down but taking out stuff is better.  Look for melodic lines that are happening at the same time as the vocal phrases and remove them.  Let stuff weave in and out of the vocals e.g. the vocal phrase stops then some melodic line comes in etc...Look for chords that are conflicting time wise with the vocal phrases too.  Pull them out.  Don't be afraid!
 
A great way to set vocal levels to the music is through a small mono speaker down at low volume with the L+R mix in the speaker.  It is easy to have the vocals too high in level compared to the music.  That sounds amateur to me.  Once you clear the path musically behind the vocals then they can be actually be set lower and it all sounds better.
 
Keep an eye on the vocal dynamics too so they are basically even and none of the quieter parts are getting lost.  If you do all this then you don't have to carve out any room or space for the vocals at all, they will naturally be heard. And it sounds better like this.
2017/07/06 22:31:40
interpolated
Sometimes older or freeware stuff works just as well.....sometimes though, you need the correct tools for the job.
2017/07/06 22:40:46
cparmerlee
Jeff Evans
The best way to keep vocals audible is to have a look at the music and carefully look at what is playing behind the vocals while the vocals are present.  Pull out anything that looks like it might conflict with the vocals.  Or turn it down but taking out stuff is better.



Good music arrangers have always used these techniques, long before there were DAWs.  Fundamentally it is the same process.  Decide what is most important to hear and get the clutter out of the way.  The most brilliant musical lines are no good if they get in the way of more important material.
2017/07/06 22:49:00
interpolated
Does anybody actually know whether the track is stereo or they have the original arrangement. Obvious fix would be to fix things in the mix if this is the case. However if the mix is now stereo the Mid/Side is going to save his ass.
 
2017/07/06 22:55:45
Jeff Evans
If the backing music is in stereo and one has no control over it then some of the techniques mentioned here might need to be used for sure.  I am assuming though that one has control over the whole multitrack session.
 
cparmerlee
 
 
Good music arrangers have always used these techniques, long before there were DAWs.  Fundamentally it is the same process.  Decide what is most important to hear and get the clutter out of the way.  The most brilliant musical lines are no good if they get in the way of more important material.

 
And if one does have the multitrack in front of them then this still applies. The great thing now is that we can so easily see what is going on as well as hear it.  A tasteful lead guitarist for example should not even play while the vocals are present.  (or if they do then it is a line that does not clash very much and might be slower etc..) But even if they do and they play a real nice line I have been known to actually move some of that material around and move it out of the way of the vocals.  It still works and then you do get to hear that brilliant line after all.
 
2017/07/07 16:27:34
thedukewestern
cparmerlee
Jeff Evans
The best way to keep vocals audible is to have a look at the music and carefully look at what is playing behind the vocals while the vocals are present.  Pull out anything that looks like it might conflict with the vocals.  Or turn it down but taking out stuff is better.



Good music arrangers have always used these techniques, long before there were DAWs.  Fundamentally it is the same process.  Decide what is most important to hear and get the clutter out of the way.  The most brilliant musical lines are no good if they get in the way of more important material.


You mean mixing?  Yes - mix engineers have been known to mix =-)
2017/07/07 18:52:40
xiwix
Vlar
cparmerlee
 
If you want to take it one step further, there are plugins that transparently make room for the vocal by dynamically dipping only conflicting frequencies and leaving everything else alone. 




Can you describe this further: what plugin? Side-chain settings/routing?, etc.?


 
TDR Nova EQ is what I've been using to do these dynamic EQ duties - I'm using the free one and it works great.
http://www.tokyodawn.net/tdr-nova/
Route all the tracks that are in the way of your vocal into an aux channel or buss and insert the Nova EQ on that track. Go to your vocal track and send it to the sidechain input of the Nova EQ.  Flip between the different metering views on the EQ to see the instruments and then switch to the sidechain input to see the vocal and carve out the space you want.  You can hear it in real time and it is a great tool that makes a difference.
2017/07/07 20:42:43
BENT
+1 for TDA-NOVA and well worth the €50 for the "Gentleman's Edition" 
© 2026 APG vNext Commercial Version 5.1

Use My Existing Forum Account

Use My Social Media Account