• SONAR
  • V-Vocal Warble ? (p.2)
2017/06/22 17:30:31
bvideo
VVocal is meant for surgical editing of individual notes in a monophonic performance. It probably doesn't work very well if there is even the slightest overlap between two consecutive notes, including any reverberant ambience.
 
It seems the OP needs a wholesale pitch shift of a few cents, without regard for identifying individual notes. So best performed by a process dedicated to that kind of task, i.e. no analysis, just resampling. Cakewalk's "Process > Transpose" is a pitch shifter, but does not allow shifts smaller than a half-tone.
2017/06/22 18:14:24
SonicExplorer
Thanks guys, much appreciate your input.  I would think a pitch corrector like Gsnap would be good but after seeing what V-Vocal did I suppose Gsnap could also end up misinterpreting something in a track and then it would be entirely useless since I couldn't even do any manual editing/correcting.  So maybe V-Vocal is indeed the way to go after all, if I can just figure some ways to manage the warbling.  Next time I will try breaking into multiple clips.
 
For now tho....
 
Is there any way to cut out parts of V-Vocal clips after the fact like you could a regular clip?  Given I have done a lot of manual editing already on the V-Vocal track, rather than start all over again by splicing up the track in multiple V-Vocal sections can I somehow just cut out the sections of V-Vocal clip that are causing the warbles?  Or some other trick to achieve the same end result?
 
Sonic
2017/06/22 21:09:39
Kev999
For pitch shifting a large clip I would normally use Time/Pitch Stretch 2. To apply it, right-click on the audio clip, then select:
Process Effect > Audio Effects > Cakewalk > Time/Pitch Stretch 2
2017/06/22 21:52:33
Bristol_Jonesey
SonicExplorer
Thanks guys, much appreciate your input.  I would think a pitch corrector like Gsnap would be good but after seeing what V-Vocal did I suppose Gsnap could also end up misinterpreting something in a track and then it would be entirely useless since I couldn't even do any manual editing/correcting.  So maybe V-Vocal is indeed the way to go after all, if I can just figure some ways to manage the warbling.  Next time I will try breaking into multiple clips.
 
For now tho....
 
Is there any way to cut out parts of V-Vocal clips after the fact like you could a regular clip?  Given I have done a lot of manual editing already on the V-Vocal track, rather than start all over again by splicing up the track in multiple V-Vocal sections can I somehow just cut out the sections of V-Vocal clip that are causing the warbles?  Or some other trick to achieve the same end result?
 
Sonic


I know what I would do
 
1.Start by removing all of the existing V-Vocal material by right clicking and choosing Edit > Remove V-Vocal, leaving you with your original raw track.
2. Make a copy of the track which you can then screw around with all you want. You'll always have the original to go back to.
3. Identify the  notes which definitely need correcting and split them out into their own, short clip. 
4. Now apply V-Vocal to these clips, one at a time.
5. When you're happy with your editing, bounce the clip to itself. V-Vocal removal is part of the bounce process.
8. Now move onto the next clip
 
It's probably a good idea to disable all Fx when doing this type of editing
2017/06/23 03:57:52
SonicExplorer
Thanks guys.
 
So then does it matter if there are FX plugs on the track when V-Vocal is applied?  I assumed it would only concentrate on the core track when it initially analyzes things, without regard to any FX plugs.  Or rather do I need to manually disable any FX plugs before applying V-Vocal?
 
Sonic
2017/06/23 07:48:06
Bristol_Jonesey
Not necessarily.
 
I only mentioned it above to make it easier for you to hear the changes you've made without being distracted by the Effects.
2017/06/24 04:35:15
SonicExplorer
I'm really confused about what exactly is going on with V-Vocal and Sonar. I tried hunting around on YouTube and within the meager help file and can't find any explanations....
 
Can somebody explain to me what the dual layer clips are about? I'm guessing the V-Vocal (top layer) is sort of a "virtual clip" in a sense.  But why then does Sonar keep the original clip visibly underneath?  Is that just a convenience thing??  And once you bounce to clips, the original is still left sitting underneath.  And has a red circle with a line through it where the clip name is otherwise found. Is that supposed to mean something?  

If someone could explain, or point me at someplace where I can read up on the whole V-Vocal/clip/Sonar integration paradigm" I'd appreciate it.   While i have managed to figure out most of V-Vocal basics I simply don't feel comfortable relying on a tool that has a whole new set of clip-management "rules" within Sonar that are rather unique & opaque....

Thanks,
 
Sonic
2017/06/24 06:13:20
Kev999
SonicExplorer
...Can somebody explain to me what the dual layer clips are about? I'm guessing the V-Vocal (top layer) is sort of a "virtual clip" in a sense.  But why then does Sonar keep the original clip visibly underneath?  Is that just a convenience thing??  And once you bounce to clips, the original is still left sitting underneath.  And has a red circle with a line through it where the clip name is otherwise found. Is that supposed to mean something?... 

 
I'd forgotten about the dual-layer thing. It doesn't work that way in later versions. Anyway it's not a bit deal. The bottom layer is the original clip muted. It's just there as a backup. Delete it if you wish.
2017/06/29 09:04:09
SonicExplorer
Guys, I ran across another quirk and wonder if you might shed some light on the cause....
 
Sometimes when I click to create a V-Vocal clip it opens with nothing present.  Sonar and V-Vocal seem at first to be acting normally, both do their initial processing thing, but when the dust settles there is nothing inside V-Vocal. I undo the operation, close down and restart Sonar, attempt the process again and then it works fine. 
 
Am I possibly doing something wrong when creating a V-Vocal clip or is this likely a bug??
 
Thanks,
 
Sonic
2017/06/29 20:44:42
Bristol_Jonesey
No, you're not doing anything wrong.
 
VV always had the ability/tendency to throw you a curve ball every so often and not play nice.
 
One way which works is to copy the clip to a blank project, do your V-Vocal work there - bounce to track and copy it back
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