Hi all,
I want to add a stereo pair of good quality, external hardware VU meters to my 2-bus line levels in Sonar Platinum, but don't want them to be affected by the master fader.  So, I'm pretty sure I need to use an external insert on a new stereo bus (or Master Bus), and somehow have it be pre-master fader.  I've tried adding audio and stereo bus tracks and using "Insert Send Assistant" to set the various tracks to "pre-fader" but the VU still operates along with the master fader. The VU's are not an effect per se, since they do not provide a "Return" signal.  This seems simple, but so far I've not been able to accomplish it. The insert thing works fine, the VU meters see 0VU when the master fader is sending 0VU.
 
Any advice appreciated.
Wade
 
PS I did a search on this forum to no avail, and even searched the internet, where a Cakewalk document led me to "insert send assistant" that I wasn't previously aware of.  But, sorry to waste bandwidth if this has been resolved before.

A  really good place to pick up the stereo mix is the headphone output either on your interface or mixer etc.  And if there is more than one then that is even better.
 
All you have to do is calibrate levels. e.g. playback the ref level that is going to show 0 dB VU in Sonar.  Make sure everything is at unity then turn up the headphone level so the VU reads 0 dB VU.
 
Make sure you get high quality movements and also the electronics that drives them is also important. I use an ART Clean box to do this.
 
http://artproaudio.com/isolators/product/cleanbox_pro/
 
I have a digital mixer that has two RCA outs(-10 dBV) that represent the stereo mix. I run it into the Clean box which steps it up to +4 dBu and also a 600 ohm balanced output too that the VU's will love.  The clean box also has adjustable input level controls which is handy if the headphone out is not variable.  You may also want to vary your ref levels like I do for example.  I use all three K System ref levels. K-12, K-14, K-20.  Each time you change you have to re adjust the Clean Box that feeds the VU's.
 
I would keep any extra outs on your interface for other purposes.  The headphone jack works perfectly.
 
Don't forget to download this article too as to why VU meters are so good and very important.
 
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_2Jb7O_b5BkeVB3dFVsUm8zelE/view?usp=sharing
 
The virtual meters these days are excellent but the ballistics of a real VU is simple very hard to beat and to me still stands as the best. (I spent over $100 each on the movements which is cheap. New ones go as high as $200 each!) Check eBay as well. Very good quality ones pop up there all the time. Built them into a nice box and make sure you get all the lights working too.  You can buy them fully mounted and ready to go as well if you look around.
 
 

Hi caa2,
I use a Focusrite ISA 430 MKII, s/pdif cable to Focusrite Pro 24 DSP, which serves only to convert the s/pdif "in" to Firewire "out" to my computer.  Output Mix 1 and 2 are my stereo outs for the main speakers, so I tried Mix 3 and 4 for the VU meters.  I assigned this mix in Sonar to External Insert "in", and went to Insert Send Assistant and checked the "prefader" box, but it still doesn't work independently of the the master fader.  
I admit I don't understand everything i know about the Focusrite MixControl switching, or even all the features of the Sonar choices.  :)  Could very well be an embarrassing case of operator error on my end, too!
 
I sincerely appreciate your comments.
Wade
 

You're not returning the signal to SONAR so there's no need to use External Insert. As Mike suggested, just add a pre-fader send direct from the Master bus to the second hardware output pair, and that should do it.

Hi Jeff Evans,
Using the headphone jack output is a great idea, I do have two outputs on this Pro 24 DSP, each individually variable. The VU meters started life as a Coleman pair, but later I acquired a few Sifam AL29 meters with driver electronics, removed from a Soundcraft Venue II console.  They seem superior to the Coleman parts, so I changed them out.  Good isolation and easy to adjust.
I am old school tape guy going back to the 1970's, I just don't feel like I'm in the mix unless I have some good old VU hardware shining their yellow lights at me!  Also have the Klanghelm VUMT VU meter plugin which works pretty well, and have also been doing those three K systems, lately using K-14.  Still learning about all that.
Thank you for your excellent suggestion, I'm going to try that.  But, I will keep trying until I figure out what went wrong with my initial approach!
 
Best regards,
Wade
 
 

Hi brundlefly,
Of course, I think you're probably correct!  I'll give that a try, and I appreciate the suggestion.
Regards,
Wade
 
 

brundlefly, and all,
Success!  It's called a "New Aux Track".  I right-clicked on the Master track, added it, turned off "Post", then changed the send to the output where the VU's were connected.  It works like a miracle, independent of the master fader.
I am totally grateful to all of you for your help, this is a great forum.  I started using Sonar before it was called Sonar, a long time ago. There are still a lot of Sonar features that I've never used, the program still amazes me at the possibilities.
 
Best regards to all!
Wade
 

Caa2,
That also solves the problem for me.  Thanks for the help on this, I really appreciate it.
 
Wade