• SONAR
  • Huge volume differences between various VST synths
2017/06/24 02:02:45
space_cowboy
Messing around with Imposcar 2 from G Force and Syn'x 2 from XILS labs.  Both are 64 bit versions and the latest updates.  
 
Synx will just not keep up with the volume of the Imposcar.  I have to peg the Synx while bringing Imposcar down to -12 on the fader in SPLAT.  Synx is turned up all the way on the plugin.  
 
I've noticed that my Arturia plug ins have a tendency to be very low.  Rapture from Cake is very hot
 
Isn't there some basic standard? NI seems to be more middle of the road than my other toys in terms of output levels.  
 
I hate having to monkey with gain staging AT THE OUTSET or throwing a compressor on to bring the value up.  
 
Is is a fault in the plug in manufacturers, something I can control better in SPLAT or a non-issue?
 
Thanks
2017/06/24 10:11:12
Zargg
Hi. I would say that this is a plugin / Vsti issue. 
Some synths can vary a lot in volume, within its own preset list.
That could of course also have something to do with the type of sound.
All the best.
2017/06/24 12:53:43
bitflipper
There is no standard. There probably should be, i.e. -12 dB at the 0 position with a sine wave.
 
I'm not sure how helpful it would be, though, given that perceived volume is so dependent on the patch you're using.  So many factors affect volume: individual oscillator levels, oscillator stacking, amplitude envelopes, filters and harmonic content, distortion, effects. 
 
2017/06/24 16:18:04
space_cowboy
Bit - like you I have a technical background.  I understand that patch to patch variances will be high.
 
But this is something endemic to some of the plug in developers.  
 
Arturia is always WAY low volume vs everything else.  XILS too.  
 
I am sure there is a lack of a a standard.  It would certainly be nice to have maybe a +/-3 dB variance tho.  12 seems so high.    
2017/06/25 14:06:43
57Gregy
After nearly blowing my eardrums out when changing the output of a MIDI track to DreamStation DXi about a decade ago, I got in the habit of always turning the volume down on soft synths before hitting play.
2017/06/25 15:09:22
bitflipper
I don't have any of those synths. What levels do you see at the default master volume setting?
 
I usually have the opposite problem: my primary synth is Zebra, and every time I browse patches I have to turn the volume way down. My secondary synth is SynthMaster, and I have to turn it down some, too.
 
My Spectrasonics synths (Omnisphere, Trillian, Keyscape) are similar but not as extreme, and usually require turning them down by about 6dB. At least they're consistent within their own product line, which suggests that Spectrasonics at least observes some in-house standard.
 
And don't get me started on the lack of level consistency in the Kontakt world!
2017/06/25 18:01:30
Wookiee
Strange you say that the Arturia synths are always low/quite I find most are OK but the CS80 is always way to loud.
2017/06/25 19:25:00
tlw
space_cowboy
Bit - like you I have a technical background.  I understand that patch to patch variances will be high.
 
But this is something endemic to some of the plug in developers.  
 
Arturia is always WAY low volume vs everything else.  XILS too.  
 
I am sure there is a lack of a a standard.  It would certainly be nice to have maybe a +/-3 dB variance tho.  12 seems so high.    




Volume variation between synths is present in hardware instruments as well. Some are easy to configure to give an output hotter than the +4dB standard, some always a bit low for -10dB "consumer" levels no matter what the patch.
 
Trouble is that a volume shift of 3dB in output is nothing. If you've one oscillator running then adding another at the same volume is going to give you +3dB, a third another 3 and so on. And if the added volume from the oscillators pushes the filter into resonance then with many synths that will add yet more volume.
 
For what it's worth, the times I use software synths I generally find I have to reduce the channel volume or the synth output volume. If anything I find they tend to start too high. An approximate standard might be useful, but it would have to be defined carefully - "one oscillator, sine or triangle wave, filter fully open, no resonance, amplitude envelope sustain at maximum" might do as one, but how often is such a patch used in the real world?
2017/06/25 20:42:05
eikelbijter
Every time I insert Zeta and I forgot to turn down the volume I nearly have an aneurysm! It's crazy how loud some synths are at default settings, and that one is the worst in my case; most presets literally redline....
 
R
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