• Hardware
  • Looking to buy a pro Level, Low Latency Audio Interface (Not named Apollo) for many VIs (p.2)
2017/02/26 00:37:09
Unknowen
tenfoot
11Dreams
Well I guess I'm old school but to get around latency I use an external mixer... its always Zero latency issues.  going back to my Delta 44 up to my Tascam 1800 recoding 14 mics of drums to a backing track. is this an old trick is there a reason one would not want to do this? 


An old school solution indeed! Pretty foolproof way to get your tracks down, but you will introduce noise from the desk and your audio interface latency will still come into play if at any stage you are going to use midi and vst synths/fx.


Not a debate in anyway but I have no noise issues. their simply isn't any noise, there is color when I use the Mackie but that's a good thing too me. :) The only noise I ever find is system related and below -90.
 
I thought I would have a latency issue when I put an amp plug on my bass and hit echo but it was still zero.
I think Cakewalk has nailed the latency thing at least for me.
If I happen to use a midi controller it plugs in usb with zero issues. I think though, there are too many setups and drivers that can fix or mess up  an audio chain. It's definitely a balancing act and if I can get it to work anyone can.
ha!
 
Kind of why I asked is because if I spent $3000 on an interface I would want to use it. It seems to me that routing through a council would keep me rolling plus they look cool! :)
2017/02/26 02:09:36
kb420
Focusrite has some really great options.  I would at least give them a look.  I just bought a 2nd gen Scarlett 18i8.  The drivers are great.  Latency is much better than my Motu Audio Express.  
2017/02/26 04:17:35
Sanderxpander
RME Totalmix is basically a mixer, and has no latency apart from the tiny AD/DA conversion (only a few samples). Additionally, it lets you route the signal from every input to any combination of outputs at any level individually for each output. And that's in its "basic" mode. It's easy to use (at least the basic mode is) and mind-bogglingly powerful. At 0% CPU load. Really, if budget doesn't stand in the way of getting a UCX, 802 or UFX, they're killer options.

And as was already mentioned, their dedication to current drivers for all their devices is awesome.
2017/02/26 04:39:45
karhide
+1 for RME.
 
I bought the FireFace 400 in 2007 after having issues with a Motu unit and have not looked back.  The 400 is still going strong but my main interface is now the UFX.
2017/02/26 05:24:29
metz
RME!
2017/02/26 05:54:31
mudgel
Many of the more modern audio devices will allow you to use their onboard DSP for fx and mix monitoring so you can have effecvely zero record/monitor latency.

The newest RME flagship is the UFX+ and it is absolutely superb.

Waves Digigrid hardware along with Waves plugins is a superb system for low latency recording/monitoring.

It's a bit pricey but I've been using it (Waves Digigrid IOS and IOX units) for spectacular results over the last year or so. All works over standard Cat5e or 6 Ethernet. At this time it pretty much only works with Waves plugins but as I have them all it was a great way to leverage that investment. If you're not worried about price too much it's definitely worth a look.
2017/02/26 11:30:03
bz2838
RME for sure!
2017/02/26 11:42:39
Sheanes
you have the Apollo connected to a thunderbolt port right ?
(+ 1 vote for RME...reliable and low latency).
2017/02/26 11:46:31
tlw
11DreamsI thought I would have a latency issue when I put an amp plug on my bass and hit echo but it was still zero.
I think Cakewalk has nailed the latency thing at least for me.
If I happen to use a midi controller it plugs in usb with zero issues. I think though, there are too many setups and drivers that can fix or mess up  an audio chain. It's definitely a balancing act and if I can get it to work anyone can.
ha!


Latency is determined by three things more than anything else.

The first is how well the computer can handle the requirements of near real-time audio processing, which is related to the processing power of the cpu and data bus but can be thrown by things such as badly written device drivers or drivers which take too much time in their share of the multi-tasking jobs, amd may have nothing to do with audiomprocessing at all. On Windows PCs wi-fi drivers are a notorious example of this, though Macs generally don't suffer from the same issue despite using similar hardware.

The second is how efficient the audio interface's driver is and the interface hardware itself. Many interfaces have a kind of built-in "secret safety buffer" which is added to the buffer set by the driver but not reported by the driver to the DAW. Few interface manufacturers will acknowledge what the real-world minimum possible latency of their products is. RME are one of the exceptions and do explain this, and the internal latency of their devices is about as low as the laws of physics allows them to be. Their PC and Mac drivers are also very well behaved indeed.

The third factor is plugins. Some can cope with doing all their stuff within the time allowed by a very small audio drover buffer so add no additional latency. Others can not, or rely on things such as "look ahead" and add varying amounts of latency to the driver-set value. Things like convolution reverbs, compressors with a "look ahead" function and linear phase eqs tend to be the worst culprits. Again, few manufacturers say what the latency implications of their products are, Waves being a notable exception.

So your bass amp plugin is presumably coded to create as little internal latency as possible, which is what you'd expect from a competently written amp emulator because it's very likely to be monitored through the DAW.

As for mixers, an RME UFX is basically a 12 input channel (8 line, 4 mic/line), 8 hardware output channel digital mixer controlled by their Totalmix software which looks and behaves like a high-end traditional mixing console with a huge number of routing possibilities, comprehensive eq and dynamics, basic reverb and delay and the ability to further inputs and outputs via ADAT plus SP/DIF. Which can be configured as a rack mount live mixer controlled by an iPad if you want. Their mic pres are also pretty good as it happens.
2017/02/26 14:31:25
ryecatchermark
RME is awesome!!!! I had nothing but problems with a MOTU 828x with Sonar Platinum.... I switched to a RME Babyface Pro and it has been 100% stable with much lower latency on the same buffer setting.
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