Hi,
I had an experience last week that I'd like to share.I'd be interested in hearing other opinions on this one.
I live in Paris,and as you may or may not know,there is absolutely no space here.People life on top of each other !! What a lot of musicians do to avoid getting on their neighbours nerves is go and play in parcs,open spaces etc.
I started going to a place recentley,and it seems a friendly enough crowd.All the people are about 17 to 20....so quite young (I'm 30).All going great until last week I arrived and was the ONLY one with a guitar.There were about four or five rappers (don't mess with these suburban guys lol),and a couple of people who played guitar normally.
Things started to kick of later in the night because basically one lad just refused to give the guitar back. I fancied jamming with the rappers,and u know just chilling back with the guitar.He became angry and said 'music is free - free for everybody'. After refraining the rappers from removing his delicates (they are like I said -nuts), I did get the guitar back.
The thing is I sensed he was being absolutely sincere when he said music should be free....he was disgusted when I suggested he should buy his own guitar,and play at his own expense.
I know this generation is differant from mine,in the sense that now,yes ofcourse you don't have to pay for music,you can download it -and in that sense it is free.Without sounding like a moaning old fart...how can you really appreciate the value of something like music,without working for it...wiithout paying for it ?. How can you convince someone who has never paid for music in his life,that actually there are benficts for going out and buying the CD (Artist,Label etc).It was a bit of a shock for me,and this is the first time I've really experienced this attitude.
If this is becoming the norm....what will happen to music ? Will it become free ? Do people care ? Will they just ultimately do whats best in their own self interests (Eg not spending money !)
Kev

if the music will be good then people will buy it, but if the music will be a loudness competition, no one will buy it eventually.

however I seen few artists (known artists) that let people download the album from their website in Wav format...

Good point, and I agree.

Do people appreciate something of value they haven't earned, or perhaps they've been given? Not in my experience.

Well, there's free and there's taking without paying for. They aren't the same thing, but they mean the same thing for the person trying to make a living at it. I think that it will be free in the latter sense, that no one will pay for it because they don't have to. At which point music as a career will be purely a live performance thing, which means that a lot of people who would otherwise make music won't do it anymore. We will reap the wages of sin basically.

Kev,

it's called Inner city life (as in the goldie song.hehe) . people are stink (as in more aggravation) in big cities (I've lived in London all my life) , you just have to be a bit street wise and being packed in like sardines don't help.Although these days I go out of London for part of the year, I think it actually keeps me sane hehe. Like say a friend of mine will go on a train,but there is a certain part of the journey that is a known bad area for muggings, so he don't have anything on him like e.g. ipod etc. anything that attracts attention.. Much as a drive a ****box car , even then some **** keyed it a few weeks back.

When you and me grew up (I'm 4 years older) life was very different, e.g. no internet and the pace of life itself was slower and people didn't have to have the latest thing, just because.

so yep the younger people now are getting a very different message, how kids are growing up now is different. E.g. if I did something wrong at that age I'd have got my a** kicked by my dad.. kids don't fear that now.. and know the laws better than what they should be learning in school (that is sad in itself).

Everyone is suing over nonsense now also.. you can't say x-y-z without offending someone etc. and numerous other things.

it's a bit like hhm say someone 60+.. they say.. in my day we could leave the doors open.. YES.. because there was nothing worth stealing .. or "the youth of today".. yet I see as many rude older people.. it's the people themselves, not anything to do with age.

As for the music being free, well maybe they see others just "take" and that to them is normal. A friend releases his work sometimes, but ONLY if you knew the group , or were a big fan would you know about the freebies.

Music is to be enjoyed, but there is bills to pay also. Most people do it as a passion and well it's a tricky one. I find it laughable when certain artists DON'T clear samples (who can well afford to) and profit BIG time off others talents, yet they are the ones who will moan if "their supposed" work is downloaded and not paid for. sampling a few seconds fair enough, but what amounts to blatant plagiarism is a world of difference.

the better angle is, a bit like how cake have done with the trust thing.. people will say.. ya know what.. I like it, I'll buy it.. if you can get people onboard from that angle it's good. Although not everyone will be like that.

some people have a frame of mind and well there isn't a lot anyone can do about it, so it's their problem.

Music might be "free" but the guitar isn't.....plain & simple. It belongs to you since you layed out the cash for it. The punk had no business trying to take it claiming it was "free"..... lucky he didn't get his "freeloading" butt handed to him.

The guitar was never yours to begin with. You were just borrowing it from the universe.

ORIGINAL: DreamzCatcher

if the music will be good then people will buy it, but if the music will be a loudness competition, no one will buy it eventually.

If the money is taken out of the equation,so too are the studios,session players,producers,engineers etc.Its a bit of a circle....as less people buy,the quality of the music is going to drop.As the quality of the music drops,so too are the people going to buy.It goes on
I've opened a real can of worms here....whoops

ORIGINAL: droddey

Well, there's free and there's taking without paying for. They aren't the same thing, but they mean the same thing for the person trying to make a living at it. I think that it will be free in the latter sense, that no one will pay for it because they don't have to. At which point music as a career will be purely a live performance thing, which means that a lot of people who would otherwise make music won't do it anymore. We will reap the wages of sin basically.

Bugger I think I'm giving you folks my depression.Next thread will be lighter I promise !!! I agree though,I think the trend that will appear at the end of it is more live music.Which in itself,probably wouldn't be such a bad thing.
Kev
K

ORIGINAL: Fog

Kev,

it's called Inner city life (as in the goldie song.hehe) . people are stink (as in more aggravation) in big cities (I've lived in London all my life) , you just have to be a bit street wise and being packed in like sardines don't help.Although these days I go out of London for part of the year, I think it actually keeps me sane hehe. Like say a friend of mine will go on a train,but there is a certain part of the journey that is a known bad area for muggings, so he don't have anything on him like e.g. ipod etc. anything that attracts attention.. Much as a drive a ****box car , even then some **** keyed it a few weeks back.

When you and me grew up (I'm 4 years older) life was very different, e.g. no internet and the pace of life itself was slower and people didn't have to have the latest thing, just because.

so yep the younger people now are getting a very different message, how kids are growing up now is different. E.g. if I did something wrong at that age I'd have got my a** kicked by my dad.. kids don't fear that now.. and know the laws better than what they should be learning in school (that is sad in itself).

Everyone is suing over nonsense now also.. you can't say x-y-z without offending someone etc. and numerous other things.

it's a bit like hhm say someone 60+.. they say.. in my day we could leave the doors open.. YES.. because there was nothing worth stealing .. or "the youth of today".. yet I see as many rude older people.. it's the people themselves, not anything to do with age.

As for the music being free, well maybe they see others just "take" and that to them is normal. A friend releases his work sometimes, but ONLY if you knew the group , or were a big fan would you know about the freebies.

Music is to be enjoyed, but there is bills to pay also. Most people do it as a passion and well it's a tricky one. I find it laughable when certain artists DON'T clear samples (who can well afford to) and profit BIG time off others talents, yet they are the ones who will moan if "their supposed" work is downloaded and not paid for. sampling a few seconds fair enough, but what amounts to blatant plagiarism is a world of difference.

the better angle is, a bit like how cake have done with the trust thing.. people will say.. ya know what.. I like it, I'll buy it.. if you can get people onboard from that angle it's good. Although not everyone will be like that.

some people have a frame of mind and well there isn't a lot anyone can do about it, so it's their problem.

Hi Fog
Yeah you're right,a lot of it probably is to do with the city vibe.So you're in London huh ? I guess its similiar in a lot of ways....I'm taking a holiday in three weeks...can't wait to escape lol !
From what I've heard in the UK,values do seem to be spinning downwards.Maybe we're seeing the backlash and consequences of the 80s get rich quick schemie thinking ? Scarey how this **** can evolve and spread.Don't want to make this an utter doom and gloom thread though...theres always going be people on the level and people who aren't...I guess thats just human nature huh.But for sure I think economics and the system is playing a huge card on how people interact.
Fog maybe all these signs indicate that something is wrong,and has to change ?
Kev