ORIGINAL: Guitarhacker

The punk had no business trying to take it claiming it was "free"..... lucky he didn't get his "freeloading" butt handed to him.

haha !!

ORIGINAL: Jessie Sammler

The guitar was never yours to begin with. You were just borrowing it from the universe.

I never thought of it like that yeah

ORIGINAL: kev11111111111111
Fog maybe all these signs indicate that something is wrong,and has to change ?
Kev

PLENTY of things are wrong, but that would take 15+ pages for me to write that all down. Same with other places in the world , they all have their issues. Since your in France, well my issue is that UK , a lot of it our power comes from France. "British" Gas is owned by the French etc. the state sold off national industries to get big money when they should have kept them.

The biggest thing of late is the stupid amount of knife crime here. I mean I email one of the bakers from time to time, and when they are saying "keep safe" and the news has got to Boston, well that's a worry. Not exactly a great advert for tourism. Although from what was said, it wasn't reported 100% correctly.

Outside London is an odd one, I mean 30 miles up the road and you would think you were in a totally different country. Same as other place really. I work on my music much more, while I'm in London it's sketches mainly and then I'll do the rest outside London and not have to worry about giving neighbours too much noise etc.

OT: knife crime? Ouch I never thought of that. I was in London a few years ago, middle of the night walking through the nasty side of Kings Cross. But I kept thinking "haha nobody has any guns here. It's safe as disneyland"

Anyway, that's one wacky story kev. Kids today! Maybe you should grab his ipod and run around yelling "music is free!" Like gh said, even if music is free... guitars, electronics, wood, labor AINT. Punk needs to get a job and figure out how the world works.

On the subject of free downloads, I'm really torn on this. I make a few bucks off gigs, session work & such. But when it comes to my own compositions I always give it away for free. I do this because my primary purpose is to communicate ideas, so I want to reach as many souls as possible. The internet has been a great boost for this. In the old days I had to front a month's paycheck for cassette duplication (yeah 'cassettes' lol. At least I didn't say 8-track) before I could share my ideas with the world. Now, it's as easy as clickety-click, and suddenly thousands of people are listening. So for my purposes, I wouldn't mind if music were free.

But I also see what you're saying... if music were totally free, it would lose its value. It would become disposable & forgettable. And that's where I'm torn. Should I charge a few bucks for my music just so that people will appreciate it more? I really don't know. Interesting topic!

ORIGINAL: kev11111111111111

ORIGINAL: Fog

Kev,

it's called Inner city life (as in the goldie song.hehe) . people are stink (as in more aggravation) in big cities (I've lived in London all my life) , you just have to be a bit street wise and being packed in like sardines don't help.Although these days I go out of London for part of the year, I think it actually keeps me sane hehe. Like say a friend of mine will go on a train,but there is a certain part of the journey that is a known bad area for muggings, so he don't have anything on him like e.g. ipod etc. anything that attracts attention.. Much as a drive a ****box car , even then some **** keyed it a few weeks back.

When you and me grew up (I'm 4 years older) life was very different, e.g. no internet and the pace of life itself was slower and people didn't have to have the latest thing, just because.

so yep the younger people now are getting a very different message, how kids are growing up now is different. E.g. if I did something wrong at that age I'd have got my a** kicked by my dad.. kids don't fear that now.. and know the laws better than what they should be learning in school (that is sad in itself).

Everyone is suing over nonsense now also.. you can't say x-y-z without offending someone etc. and numerous other things.

it's a bit like hhm say someone 60+.. they say.. in my day we could leave the doors open.. YES.. because there was nothing worth stealing .. or "the youth of today".. yet I see as many rude older people.. it's the people themselves, not anything to do with age.

As for the music being free, well maybe they see others just "take" and that to them is normal. A friend releases his work sometimes, but ONLY if you knew the group , or were a big fan would you know about the freebies.

Music is to be enjoyed, but there is bills to pay also. Most people do it as a passion and well it's a tricky one. I find it laughable when certain artists DON'T clear samples (who can well afford to) and profit BIG time off others talents, yet they are the ones who will moan if "their supposed" work is downloaded and not paid for. sampling a few seconds fair enough, but what amounts to blatant plagiarism is a world of difference.

the better angle is, a bit like how cake have done with the trust thing.. people will say.. ya know what.. I like it, I'll buy it.. if you can get people onboard from that angle it's good. Although not everyone will be like that.

some people have a frame of mind and well there isn't a lot anyone can do about it, so it's their problem.

Hi Fog
Yeah you're right,a lot of it probably is to do with the city vibe.So you're in London huh ? I guess its similiar in a lot of ways....I'm taking a holiday in three weeks...can't wait to escape lol !
From what I've heard in the UK,values do seem to be spinning downwards.Maybe we're seeing the backlash and consequences of the 80s get rich quick schemie thinking ? Scarey how this **** can evolve and spread.Don't want to make this an utter doom and gloom thread though...theres always going be people on the level and people who aren't...I guess thats just human nature huh.But for sure I think economics and the system is playing a huge card on how people interact.
Fog maybe all these signs indicate that something is wrong,and has to change ?
Kev

Nail hit squarely on head there Kev, IMHO. That's where it started, the stripping away of the working class in this country, the dismantling of the foundations of society. What we're left with is 3rd generation disaffected kids with overgrown adolescent parents sporting huge chips on their shoulders because they can't afford 'everything, all the time'
Add to that the disappearance of 'proper' pubs and drinking establishments in town centres, replaced with theme bars which only cater for the under-25's - result? No peer respect + no role models + no age-based hierarchy = unconstrained binge-drinking & inevitable violence.

Phew, sorry..rant over!

ORIGINAL: DreamzCatcher

if the music will be good then people will buy it, but if the music will be a loudness competition, no one will buy it eventually.

however I seen few artists (known artists) that let people download the album from their website in Wav format...

That may be true but "good" will have to be defined before I agree with that statement.
If rap is classified as music and you consider that "good music" then your statement is right for you. No doubt many people bought rap and I don't consider it good or music. No offense to rappers...just head on without me or my money.

Many guitarist enrolled in schools to learn theory so they could persue a chance playing "shred" after Malmsteen, Joe and Steve...and found out after all their efforts that "grunge" was selling and shredders were history to the money man. They had to downplay to get action. Surely a demonstration that knowledge of nor the quality of recording has anything to do with good music or the qualifications of "marketing".
Kurt was a money maker...music? It's a personal thing but I wouldn't consider him a guitarist or a vocalist but it sold. Just an example of talent nor quality sound meeting MY requirements of "good" music by musicians.

Quality sound and knowledgeable musicians has been the least desired requirement for selling music since the birth of the "digital age" and some time before. Remember disco?

The digital age has made it possible for anybody including people that know absolutely nothing about playing a musical instrument to "make" "music". And since the listeners lack of interest for knowledgable musicians recording and distributing quality recordings it has degraded the business in whole. To the point where one of the finest groups of excellent musicians with excellent recording productions to resort to Wal-Mart marketing. (The Eagles)

Speaking for myself, being a member of AARP I don't really care what happens to music because I have lived through and experienced what I believe to be the best times music has had and will have to offer.

As far as making money with music there will always be somebody that knows how to extract money from people including for music.
As far as musicians making money - Define musician. I don't know anymore. It use to be someone that played a musical instrument. Oh and that has changed too...define musical instrument.

Music, equipment and musicians were sure easier to define not to long ago. And there will always be somebody that can sell ice cubes to Eskimo's.

Michael

when I say good music...I mean great music, music that make you feel something beyond the the notes, music is spiritual healing.

music tells you a lot about the world itself in all aspects...
we live in a world that there is no place for weak people, people run after things that they don't even know if they like, just because others do those things...people feel stressed all the time because of money/respect...no money = no respect = fail...

the same thing you can see (hear) in the music industry these days, people make music that they don't even like, because they want to sell, they compress the music so heavily even if it sounds like shi7 because others do the same...and so on..."if your music doesn't sound like others, then you probably suck..."

when the music will die, the world will go backward, lots of people will live in the woods, make campfire, smoke weed and play some tom toms and they will feel great...the good life.

btw kev, it will be nice if you could write with more spaces between the lines (press enter from time to time).
English isn't my native language, it hurts my eyes to read it like that...no offense, this is my fault after all.

ORIGINAL: Spaceduck

OT: knife crime? Ouch I never thought of that. I was in London a few years ago, middle of the night walking through the nasty side of Kings Cross. But I kept thinking "haha nobody has any guns here. It's safe as disneyland"

rather you than me, it's a stones throw from the tourist area's to there, It's not a place to hang around esp late at night. Reason I know about it is someone I know that was their area when they were in the police.. It all comes under Camden, and there are rather some unsavoury people around where the market / lock are.

Every major city is like that, just a bit if you don't have the local knowledge it's a different matter. Same as I remember Central Park used to be bad for crime until they cleaned it up.

If music really were free, no one would be able to make a living at it. It would have to be a hobby, or an act of charity. Or are we just talking about recorded music, and not live performances? I've seen people on variouis message boards suggest that musicians should offer their music as free downloads, as a loss-leader, to get people interested -- then make all their money on tours and merchandising. Well, if you're touring all the time to pay off the costs of recording your album, when are you going to record? And a lot of musicians have fan bases that don't have many occasions to wear hoodies and black T-shirts.

If music were free, maybe it would be "free" the same way broadcast TV in the States is free: You buy a TV, take it home, plug it in, add your antenna, and you can watch as much TV as you want. The only catch is that a third of every hour is devoted to advertising by huge companies trying to brainwash you into buying their consumer products. These same companies essentially have veto power over the content of any programming that their advertising revenue sponsors. If music worked like this, wouldn't everyone be a lot happier?