ORIGINAL: Jessie Sammler

If music really were free, no one would be able to make a living at it. It would have to be a hobby, or an act of charity. Or are we just talking about recorded music, and not live performances? I've seen people on variouis message boards suggest that musicians should offer their music as free downloads, as a loss-leader, to get people interested -- then make all their money on tours and merchandising. Well, if you're touring all the time to pay off the costs of recording your album, when are you going to record?

On the whole, I think that's the best business model. Sure you won't become a billionaire, but I know plenty of bands who make a nice living by playing out 2-3 times a month, giving them plenty of free time & money for the studio 3 months out of the year. I think the problem is that most pop stars cannot be happy with that. They want swimming pools, rolls royces and sprawling mansions to validate their "success".

As an aside, I also believe the idea of getting rich off selling albums is a myth. I bet if we did the accounting, we'd find that very few (or no) musicians become millionaires by selling albums. That money gets snatched up by the record companies and klingons, leaving 10c on the dollar for the artist. The money really *is* in merchandising, touring, celebrity endorsements and so on.

But being rich is not a prerequisite to being a good or prolific musician; in fact history shows us that the greatest artists were dirt poor. So I can't subscribe to the idea that money is necessary in this equation. I don't necessarily think that music should be handed out for free, but I think every musician should ask himself or herself, "If music were free, would I still do it?" That should weed out the counterfeits in a jiffy!

ORIGINAL: DreamzCatcher

when I say good music...I mean great music, music that make you feel something beyond the the notes, music is spiritual healing.

music tells you a lot about the world itself in all aspects...
we live in a world that there is no place for weak people, people run after things that they don't even know if they like, just because others do those things...people feel stressed all the time because of money/respect...no money = no respect = fail...

the same thing you can see (hear) in the music industry these days, people make music that they don't even like, because they want to sell, they compress the music so heavily even if it sounds like shi7 because others do the same...and so on..."if your music doesn't sound like others, then you probably suck..."

when the music will die, the world will go backward, lots of people will live in the woods, make campfire, smoke weed and play some tom toms and they will feel great...the good life.

ORIGINAL: DreamzCatcher

btw kev, it will be nice if you could write with more spaces between the lines (press enter from time to time).
English isn't my native language, it hurts my eyes to read it like that...no offense, this is my fault after all.

Please don't feel I'm trying to give you a hard time. I'm not.
It's only that if I understand (not you native language) you right, I couldn't disagree more on most of what you say and here's why.

The music market history tells a completely different story than yours.
The market makes it's money from selling young people what they want to hear. The young spend their money and their parents money for music. Marketing fact.
Young people could care less about quality or good. They simply like what is cool and hip for their time.

Now that the music industry has completely changed with the introduction of easy recording access to the masses and easy ways to create music (what I previously mentioned about "anybody" can create) the "musician" has completely changed too. To the point I don't know how to define one.
The way that people listen to music has completely changed. Why would a label waste time and money on quality when their marketing to kids and their parents that listen to low quality encoding? One reason only that I could guess...the artist demands it and is powerful enough to demand it.

Anything that I can hear on my computer I can record. Why would I buy music? That is the question that technology has put in front of everybody. ( what does "download" have to do with it anyway? If I can hear it I can record it-no need to download.)

The part I do agree with you is "people make music that they don't even like" which is exactly what I mean by "Just an example of talent nor quality sound meeting MY requirements of "good" music by musicians."
And this "lots of people will live in the woods, make campfire, smoke weed and play some tom toms and they will feel great...the good life." Well that's happened before and surely will happen again. Might could happen tonight if I didn't have to go to work tomorrrow. Really don't what all that's about but I agree with it.

Just my opinions and with them I can answer Kev.
Yes, I believe there will always be a market for music -good or bad- no different from the past except it may not include musicians in the sense that I know. Quality and "musicians" will be defined by the selling strength that is usually directed at the young people. (where the money is) The music industry is in a transitional stage due to technology and what it all will become is anybody's guess. Presently, in my opinion quality and musicianship is at an all time low in the marketplace. I believe that will change and both will reach incredible levels.

And Kev stop letting people you don't know play your guitar! lol

Regards,
Michael

Well, even if Rolls and mansions aren't your thing, I doubt most folks would be able to put children through school and college, buy a decent though modest home and a car, and afford health insurance and so forth by just playing out a few times a month. And if millions of people are enjoying your work, then you damn well deserve the mansion. That's what the whole capitalist system is about. You put in the work to create the things that people enjoy or benefit from so that you can get the big payoff. It's that encouragement that drives innovation and creation.

And I can steal what you create and not pay you, then why shouldn't you be able to steal what I make? We are creating a world where there's no respect for the work of others. That has far greater consequences for blowback than the more immediate issue even, though the immediate issue is no joke for people in the music business.

ORIGINAL: droddey

Well, even if Rolls and mansions aren't your thing, I doubt most folks would be able to put children through school and college, buy a decent though modest home and a car, and afford health insurance and so forth by just playing out a few times a month. And if millions of people are enjoying your work, then you damn well deserve the mansion. That's what the whole capitalist system is about. You put in the work to create the things that people enjoy or benefit from so that you can get the big payoff. It's that encouragement that drives innovation and creation.

That's true, and I do have the highest respect for musicians who are good at the business side, too. Madonna. David Bowie. Michael Jackson. Uh, wait scratch that last one...

Anyway, yah if a musician acheives international fame, then that musician deserves all the toys there are. I still think, though, the "billionaire celebrity pop musician" is a product of the post-1960s music industry. Coincidentally about the time when music started going downhill......

I doubt that there are many billionaire pop musicians, unless they invested their money wisely in things other than their music. But clearly money isn't the important factor. I mean it's not like Led Zepplin or The Beatles didn't make a lot of money. The more likely scenario is that you've just gotten old, and you have the same attitude about today's music as your parents had about yours.

ORIGINAL: spacey

The music market history tells a completely different story than yours.
The market makes it's money from selling young people what they want to hear. The young spend their money and their parents money for music. Marketing fact.
Young people could care less about quality or good. They simply like what is cool and hip for their time.

Regards,
Michael

the problem is with the artists, not with the listeners...

there are too much INNOCENT newcomers artists (wannabes) that ask themself "why does my music sound lower than the professionals" something must be wrong with my production...("See the grass is greener on the other side of the fence")

imagine how much artists and labels fall in to this...

If so much people do the same mistake, it becomes a new stardard and lots of other people follow it whether you like it or not, you can see it all over the web and hear it all over the music genres.

ORIGINAL: DreamzCatcher

ORIGINAL: spacey

The music market history tells a completely different story than yours.
The market makes it's money from selling young people what they want to hear. The young spend their money and their parents money for music. Marketing fact.
Young people could care less about quality or good. They simply like what is cool and hip for their time.

Regards,
Michael

the problem is with the artists, not with the listeners...

there are too much INNOCENT newcomers artists (wannabes) that ask themself "why does my music sound lower than the professionals" something must be wrong with my production...("See the grass is greener on the other side of the fence")

imagine how much artists and labels fall in to this...

If so much people do the same mistake, it becomes a new stardard and lots of other people follow it whether you like it or not, you can see it all over the web and hear it all over the music genres.

Now I know it's not language issue for me wondering if I understood you right.
I understand you completely and couldn't disagree more and will leave it at that.

Regards,
Michael

ORIGINAL: DreamzCatcher

btw kev, it will be nice if you could write with more spaces between the lines (press enter from time to time).
English isn't my native language, it hurts my eyes to read it like that...no offense, this is my fault after all.

Whoops

sorry

Kev

wow sorry this thread has become a bit depressing ! I'll send you all some positive karma on me next post OMMMMMMMMMM
Kev (not been smoking)

Music is love (best that I can tell).

Love costs a bit from the artist and maybe a little from the target of love.

But love is a free gift? Freely given to you and I, from 'another source'. We might be free to give freely to others ... or not to go for filthy lucre.