abacab

kennywtelejazz
 
How are you guys working on cresting the learning curve ..
Do you have a plan you stick to ? or do you work the learning curve as the technical need arises  ?

I think that with any complex piece of software, most users never approach 100% use of all the features.  Probably more like 10-20%.  There is something there for everyone, but you don't have to be everyone!
 
I think learning as the technical need arises is the most efficient way.  For one, your problem solving juices are revving in high gear, so you are more likely to apply the knowledge gained for an immediate reward.  That's something that you will not forget anytime soon!

It's true, most people know what they need to know, leaving the rest unused and not learned.
But I do try to use plugins and features that I've never used before, just to learn about them, and to get my full money's worth out of most of Sonar's features.

I most certainly have always just learned features when the need arises. Sonar has soooo many features and then to make matters worse they keep adding more! 
I'm basically lazy when it comes to digging in real deep and always pick the path of least resistance to getting a song finished. I'm not sure if I'm doing my songs a disservice by not using all those wonderful plug ins. It seems every time I get the urge to try something new the music suffers because I don't really know how to make that particular plug in do anything. So I end up using the same old plug ins that I understand. I don't even use Pro Channel because everytime I tried it I could not even hear anything happening?? What's with that little EQ ? it doesn't work for me and I know that's gotta be 100% pilot error. But I know someday I'll figure it out and stop having to put the EQ in the effect bins. 
I even figured out the step sequencer the other day because I had to make a drum loop and I don't have a keyboard on hand at work. Working in Home Studio has been a good way for me to get work done without worrying about missing out on all those fancy Splat features because they don't exist in Home studio. You can work away happy as a clam oblivious to Pro channel. 

Cactus Music
I don't even use Pro Channel because everytime I tried it I could not even hear anything happening?? What's with that little EQ ? it doesn't work for me and I know that's gotta be 100% pilot error. But I know someday I'll figure it out and stop having to put the EQ in the effect bins.

 
Not to be a toady, but I think Craig summed it up nicely earlier today when he said of the ProChannel EQ:
 

AndertonAlso, the four different responses in the QuadCurve are extremely useful but that requires spending time to really learn them. As to the flyout, although I have Platinum, I never use it...I just vary the knobs to get the sound I want, after choosing the curve that's most appropriate for the material. I highly recommend people A/B blind-test the QuadCurve against far more costly EQs, and then make their own evaluations.

 
Not that I have really learned all the nuances, but I did find this page helpful for a better understanding of the EQ styles.
 
http://www.cakewalk.com/Documentation?product=SONAR&language=3&help=ProChannel.06.html
 
 
 

abacab

kennywtelejazz
 
I started getting tired of looking at a blank SONAR project ...in the past I would start that way and build up my sounds as the song progressed ....it seemed to be a lot of work starting there and a lot of time was wasted ..
I started creating some of my own custom track templates ...Yeah OK fine ..that's only the tip of the iceberg ...
Now within that type of shift in workflow I can clearly see the benefits , the thing is there are so many ways of applying these types of things in a musically tasteful manner  ....
My struggle is I haven't gotten to the musically tasteful part yet because there are so many subdivisions of sub workflows within that style of workflow of what can be done  ...many variables , choices and sub learning curves....
for example ....
 

Hey Kenny!
 
I think that sums up my thinking pretty much ...
 
As a MIDI nut, I have been a Cakewalk user since the Pro Audio days, and have had almost every version of Sonar since.  I applaud their progress and continue to support their development efforts, and their soft synths.  But for my own use, I have concluded that Sonar excels at being a virtual recording studio.  For tools that support songwriting and composition within the DAW, maybe not so much ... not that you can't, but it can take lots of clicks to do away with that blank page!
 
If you were to walk into a real recording studio, where you were paying by the hour, you had better be ready to lay down some serious stuff, all arranged and ready to go.  This is way beyond the blank sheet of paper syndrome, LOL!
 
For the creative stages, I think that maybe this is a case of keeping it simple, using easy tools to get around in, until you have the sound that you want.  If you can find that in Sonar, great!
 
But in recent years there seem to be a lot of alternative tools that offer a streamlined workflow for the creative musician to consider.  I have recently acquired Tracktion Waveform 8, and I can see why Tracktion has some enthusiastic fans.  It offers a basic recording environment with total editing and routing flexibility within a few clicks, as well as some awesome MIDI musicality tools!
 
The Waveform user guide is 381 pages and can be covered in a weekend.  By contrast, Sonar is a beast, with a 2528 page user guide ...

Hi abacab ,
 
My rig way back in the day for midi composition consisted of a Yamaha QX21 , a Roland R-5 Human Rhythm Composer , a few TX 81 Z's  , a few Roland and Casio keyboards ,  a Roland which eventually led to an Ibanez Midi guitar , a rack mount 4 track cassette recorder and a bunch of other much needed hardware odds and ends..
I thought I was living high on the hog back then...Whew ! little did I know what the future was gonna hold   
 
In the past I have been in many top tier recording studios both as a player and as a fly on the wall .
I would say the thing I miss the most about back then was the social interactions , the networking and getting to play w some very good players.
I miss a workflow that involves rehearsing and writing within a group context . Performing live as a unit and then eventually recording in a properly equipped recording studio . 
As far as what I hated ...I hated the politics and the never ending back stabbing 
 
Yes for some of the creative stages , I do like to mess around out side of SONAR ...
Some of the other DAW's I like to use in a few cases are not as feature rich as SONAR ..And then Some Are
The ones that I do use are pretty much well recognized as being good .
In some cases they are SONAR's direct competition (which I don't give 2 $hits about since I like to use what I have )
What ends up being more important to me is being able to bring my work back into SONAR for refinement ...
 
 
Oh Yeah,  VIVA Waveform  Say , T did come out w a new video for Waveform ...
A few weeks ago I spent 4 hours inputting chords one at a time using the new midi tools.  I wanted to see how hard it would be to input the song Giant Steps ..after getting the correct chords in the timeline I added an arpeggio to each and every chord , then I took the sequence as a whole and edited the whole tune in the piano roll for better voice leading and chord voices ...then I stuck a Classical Harp synth patch on it .
After going the I wound up exporting it to a midi file to bring into SONAR ..
Now what a have is a tune that sounds just like Harpo Marx playing cadenzas over the tune Giant Steps
 
 
 
nice rapping with you ,
 

telecharge

kennywtelejazz
My struggle is I haven't gotten to the musically tasteful part yet because there are so many subdivisions of sub workflows within that style of workflow of what can be done  ...many variables , choices and sub learning curves....

Much like "tasteful" music, a good workflow is a subjective thing. All I can do is tell you what has worked for me with the hope that you'll get some benefit from it.
 
For me, staying in a creative flow is more important than the most efficient workflow. However, an inefficient workflow can hamper creativity. It is a bit of a puzzle, and sometimes difficult to find that balance.
 
I do think that restricting your choices and committing to a sound is good advice. See this quote from mixer/engineer/producer Andy Wallace:
 

Andy Wallce
When I was working on eight-track or 16-track I had to make mix decisions while I was recording, and today I can go back and listen to these recordings and feel that I made good decisions. But I now get sessions with 100+ tracks where there will be eight different mics on the same guitar amplifier, and you have to listen to what makes the best blend, and so on. When I get a project that's full of unmade decisions it slows me down, because I have to put my producer hat on and sort out these decisions. I prefer for the recording engineer and producer to decide on the sound for a guitar, but instead, many of them like to keep their options open because they're looking for perfection. So I spend a lot of time trying to make people understand that there's no perfect mix. You can always change a mix and not make it worse. But do the changes improve it? In my experience, a mix rarely gets better with endless changes and recalls. For me, a mix is about trying to find something that works and that makes the hairs on the back of my neck stand up, and believing in that. If you are rethinking and second-guessing that all the time you risk losing that feeling.

Thank you telecharge for that thoughtful post yes it does hold a number of solutions and an integralkey to some of my problems ..
It seems the musical problems I'm having are of my own creation .  I need to give this some more thought .
 
Thank you for sharing that
 

bitman
Kenny, I checked out you YouTube vids today.
You can play a little.

That fella when he was young couldn't even make it out of Mel Bay's Book one
 
Thank you for the kindness
 
Kenny

dupe post
 
Kenny

Zargg
Hi. I am also in the "learn as I need to" category.
If I need to do something I don't know how, I come here and check.
I usually find what I need when searching here.
If not, I read the manual, and learn something new that way.
All the best.

Hi Ken ,
 
Overall in a nutshell , what you have said is pretty much how I have been working it ...learn as I need to ...
thank you for sharing that
 
From this point on I'm just riffing out loud .
 
In my case , while using that approach I seem to keep hitting a lot of brick walls ..
 
What if what I have thought was a proven workflow was actually holding me back ?
Is it a technical issue ? has the program moved on so much that I'm just holding on to my past way of working ?
Is there a much better way for me to do what I have been attempting to do this whole time ?
Am I always in the best position " objectively "to be able to judge if it's time to learn to execute different workflows  to get different results than what I have been getting thus far ?
When it comes to giving up some of my comfortable familiar "to me " ways of working in music production , Am I in for the bean ? or am I in for the whole Burrito ?  
Can I humble myself enough to ask for help ? ( and be OK with losing a little face temporarily )
Can I accept the help when it is offered ? Can I accept it graciously ?  
 
some food for thought ..
 
I'm open to hear what people think .
 
all the best,
 
Kenny

bapu

Zargg
Hi. I am also in the "learn as I need to" category.
If I need to do something I don't know how, I come here and check.
I usually find what I need when searching here.
If not, I read the manual, and learn something new that way.
All the best.

+1
 
My 64+ year old pea brain doesn't hold as much as it used to.
 
Sometimes I have to go back and re-learn something I used anywhere from 6 months to years ago but just can't "remember" how I did it. By that I mean the one-off things that are not part of my "normal" work flow.
 
So ala carte is my style.
 
I still don't use templates (but I do understand their power). I blame that on having so many VSTi programs that I'm never sure what I'm going to use when I start a project.
 
A Forum Monkeys song is different than a BBZ song is different than a solo project song. And within just those three categories each song is usually different than the last.
 
 
 

I've had the same thing happen to me with having to relearn a workflow I had used successfully in the past .
Yes I would imagine you having a hard time using a template to start a song that involves 4 or 5 forum members doing a collab
thanks for sharing ...

Leee

abacab

kennywtelejazz
 
How are you guys working on cresting the learning curve ..
Do you have a plan you stick to ? or do you work the learning curve as the technical need arises  ?

I think that with any complex piece of software, most users never approach 100% use of all the features.  Probably more like 10-20%.  There is something there for everyone, but you don't have to be everyone!
 
I think learning as the technical need arises is the most efficient way.  For one, your problem solving juices are revving in high gear, so you are more likely to apply the knowledge gained for an immediate reward.  That's something that you will not forget anytime soon!

It's true, most people know what they need to know, leaving the rest unused and not learned.
But I do try to use plugins and features that I've never used before, just to learn about them, and to get my full money's worth out of most of Sonar's features.

I like your point of view and attitude
 
all the best,
 
Kenny
 
 

From what I have gathered, these are intended for the final stage of mixes rather than the development stage. Mind you if your computer can handle it then a few of these placed on busses or whatever will make a difference. I like the fact you can can mix left and right channels independently.
 
This could be a good replacement for my UA Precisiion Multiband but no gate in the Sonar plug-in.
 

timidi
It seems that anymore, the music is a bi-product of experimenting, learning and fixing stuff. 
Not the other way around.

That's up to the user, not the company making a product. 
 
There was an update to Ableton Live that was huge, I think it was maybe Ableton 4. Gerhard Behles asked how I liked the new features. I told him that frankly, they were great but I didn't need them for what I do, so I learned only a few of them. I thought he would be offended but instead, he got a big smile and said "That's perfect, we give you the possibilities, you use what you need."
 
As to the OP, I recommend learning something when you need it to accomplish a specific musical or technical goal. Otherwise, just keep doing what you need to do.
 
The paradox is that the monthly update cuts the learning curve into 12 pieces compared to a big yearly update. Because it's less stuff to learn, people feel obliged to learn it. Don't. Use what you need when you need it...and know that it's there for when you do.
 
I'm hoping the re-launched eZine will help people sort out what they need from what they don't.

I apologise I misunderstood the question. Everyday is a learning curve for me but I live to learn and forget where applicable (not always by choice). TBF unless it's some whacked out VST machine or creative effect, what you learned in another DAW or even in Sonar should transpose to Protools, Cubase, Samplitude etc.
 
Or even if you're used to using real studio hardware then in theory you should be up and going soon enough.