For clarification, are the complaints about the ability to create and record music, or to output a finished publisher-ready score?  I understand things could be better in both areas, but I think the first is critical while the second might be hard to justify in a DAW.

Staff view works perfect.
I've used to like 3 times to look at the dot thingy's. And I have seen dots all 3 times

konradh
For clarification, are the complaints about the ability to create and record music, or to output a finished publisher-ready score?  I understand things could be better in both areas, but I think the first is critical while the second might be hard to justify in a DAW.

I've never suggested that a DAW should be a full-blown music notation program.  I have long stated that the purpose of a notation editor in a DAW is for MIDI input and editing only, not for creating a publish-quality score.   I use Sibelius, and, before that, Score, to create my scores.  The issues I have with Sonar's notation is not what features it lacks (other than tied-triplets, dotted-triplets and 64th notes being displayed correctly) but rather bugs:  things that are supposed to work in a certain way but do not.  My main complaint is the snap function, which is separate from the snap features that appear on the control bar.
 
Jerry
www.jerrygerber.com/symph9mvt1.htm
 
 

I promised myself that after X3, I would only upgrade if there was proper attention paid to the the triplet related issues in staff view.

I thought I would vote with my dollars (or lack thereof).

And I made it a point to limit my b1tching and moaning on the forum.

I was rewarded by no longer being eligible to upgrade from X3.

So even if there is an improvement around the corner, my upgrades, which I thought in some small way, might be funding a future staff view improvement - I'm SOL.

Thanks Cakewalk.

pbognar

I was rewarded by no longer being eligible to upgrade from X3.

So even if there is an improvement around the corner, my upgrades, which I thought in some small way, might be funding a future staff view improvement - I'm SOL.

Thanks Cakewalk.

 
Wow, I double checked and yeah, gee thanks Cakewalk, nice way to chase off customers in a really competitive field.

jsg
I have long stated that the purpose of a notation editor in a DAW is for MIDI input and editing only, not for creating a publish-quality score.   
 

Nail on the head.  I don't think it should be Cakewalk's objective to make Sonar's staff view into anything close to Finale or similar, and I haven't seen any serious requests for that.  Engraving and printing is an art all its own and the tools that already exist in that space are incredible.  Instead, Sonar's staff view should function as a MIDI editor, as you stated, preferably with the same polish the rest of the application has, without the (IMO) unnecessary fluff that comes along with print-quality scores.
 
As far as voting with my dollars, I owned X2, never bought X3, then signed on to the monthly plan when it was introduced.  I paid into it for at least as long as it takes to "own" Sonar, hoping that breaking the updates into smaller chunks would allow the bakers to whittle away at the long-standing staff view issues, one at a time.  My benchmark for success, to keep me subscribing, was just one real staff view fix a month.  That was it; throw us a bone, fix snap, fix triplets, fix paste special having a mind of its own, put the note icons back at the top, or heaven forbid add the first new feature in 18-odd years.
 
We did get a few sporadic staff view fixes, but they weren't issues I'd ever encountered using Sonar since version 2.2.  So I'm happy if those fixes helped some people, and I really do mean that.   I'm sure Anderton or somebody can point to dozens of bug reports I haven't seen, and that's fine, but what I have seen from staff view users all deal with triplets and other functionality issues.
 
So I unsubscribed once it became clear my subscription wasn't going toward development I cared most about.  The only card I have to play, in this poker game, is my subscription fee, and it's precisely why I didn't go for lifetime updates.  I figured I'd get on board with the new dev/pricing model and give them a fair shake.  So far, it hasn't really panned out.
 
I maintain hope that things will change.
 
 
 

None of us long time users who lean towards the ways of the staff are under any illusions that Cakewalk has the intention of improving the staff view. They simply have never even hinted it is even important. Their newer user base appears to be PRV orientated, so they spent development dollars over there instead.
 
JSG (in Post #19) mentions some promising contact with Cakewalk regarding staff attention. This is very reassuring.
 
Anyways, not sure I like the title of this thread, because Sonar's staff view is really not "terrible", and it works very well for me, as far as writing pop songs . . . though, I have tried to write orchestral pieces using Sonar's staff view, and I can't imagine how any of you can do that, especially when there are so many other software choices that do that much better.
 
I did however learn some new things about staff view's history in this thread that I had no idea about.
If it's true, it explains a lot about the neglect towards staff improvements.
 
I'm really hoping their is some partnership discussion in the works with other notation software developers to integrate their staff software in Sonar, that seems to be the most realistic thing that may happen regarding this.
(Sorry if it seems a bit of a rant, I just can't resist a good staff view thread)

As far as the talk of this bit or other being sold off I would like to have it confirmed in writing by a link to a bona fide article rather than unsubstantiated comments which just doesn't add up.

Elffin
just out of interest this vid shows what overture 5 is now capable of....
 
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_zy3xuwdYY

very nice

mudgel
As far as the talk of this bit or other being sold off I would like to have it confirmed in writing by a link to a bona fide article rather than unsubstantiated comments which just doesn't add up.

It wasn't sold off as far as the newsprint indicated simply that the developer and twelve tone systems inc parted ways. I have posted the newsprint several times in the past. This was back around sonar 1 or 2, right after pro audio 9. The developer has gone on to sell an improved product with his own company. I merely speculate that the rights went with him because nothing has been done to make it work better in almost 20 years. It really doesn't matter how many personnel and ownership changes cakewalk has gone through. 20 years, it could have been addressed by now if it was possible. Let us all hope I'm wrong.