But I really have this impression that when you put all the channels together things turn a little muddy and small.

Use EQ to clean up the tracks and carve out space for your instruments. Use Channel Tools to add some width. Use the Concrete Limiter to get a loud output. Be sparing on the reverb. Adjust volumes on tracks with care. Try to cut rather than boost volumes. Finally get Ozone.

The only thing an analog mixer will add is noise. 

John

But I really have this impression that when you put all the channels together things turn a little muddy and small.

Use EQ to clean up the tracks and carve out space for your instruments. Use Channel Tools to add some width. Use the Concrete Limiter to get a loud output. Be sparing on the reverb. Adjust volumes on tracks with care. Try to cut rather than boost volumes. Finally get Ozone.

The only thing an analog mixer will add is noise. 

Bad noise or good noise?


My Waves NLS have a button called "noise"... A good one I think.

Digital to Analog then back to Digital just for a summing effect seems like loss of signal and some bit rez loss too.

ProMusic27

John

But I really have this impression that when you put all the channels together things turn a little muddy and small.

Use EQ to clean up the tracks and carve out space for your instruments. Use Channel Tools to add some width. Use the Concrete Limiter to get a loud output. Be sparing on the reverb. Adjust volumes on tracks with care. Try to cut rather than boost volumes. Finally get Ozone.

The only thing an analog mixer will add is noise. 

Bad noise or good noise?


My Waves NLS have a button called "noise"... A good one I think.

There is no such thing as good noise.  Whatever one may think about this if you add stuff to a recording and its not intentional its a form of distortion. In fact any noise is.

The best way to think about this is if its not there in the instrument to begin with than its an artifact or a distortion. When you listen to live music that has not been amplified what noise is added? That sound should be the sound we are after. I don't buy the notion that analog noise is a good thing. For years engineers have been trying to rid audio circuits of noise yet those that for some reason like analog want it back. When I use the term engineers I mean real electrical engineers.

A no noise recording was the elusive holly grail of recording. Than digital came along and it was realized for the very first time to a degree. Why do we want to add noise to very quiet pristine recording? Its because some like obscuring noise that didn't let us hear what the real sound really was. Its a question of purity.

How many spend time listening to live music that is unamplified in great acoustic environments?

The first time one hears the human voice from a great singer without sound reinforcement in a proper environment than one will know what I am talking about.

Recordings in general are shadows of the real thing. Adding stuff to them in the form of noise just adds more obscuring distortion to what is already compromised by the very fact its been recorded.

One reason we tolerate this is rock music embraces distortion but its also always been amplified.

If you listen to music that is not amplified traditionally in a good listening environment one would be amazed at what one can hear. No recording can duplicate that. Its our job to try hard to get as close as is possible but its not completely achievable. Digital is our best hope.

Now to bring this back to reality one can add stuff if it will sound pleasing. Just keep in mind that its a distortion.

John

ProMusic27

John

But I really have this impression that when you put all the channels together things turn a little muddy and small.

Use EQ to clean up the tracks and carve out space for your instruments. Use Channel Tools to add some width. Use the Concrete Limiter to get a loud output. Be sparing on the reverb. Adjust volumes on tracks with care. Try to cut rather than boost volumes. Finally get Ozone.

The only thing an analog mixer will add is noise. 

Bad noise or good noise?


My Waves NLS have a button called "noise"... A good one I think.

There is no such thing as good noise.  Whatever one may think about this if you add stuff to a recording and its not intentional its a form of distortion. In fact any noise is.

The best way to think about this is if its not there in the instrument to begin with than its an artifact or a distortion. When you listen to live music that has not been amplified what noise is added? That sound should be the sound we are after. I don't buy the notion that analog noise is a good thing. For years engineers have been trying to rid audio circuits of noise yet those that for some reason like analog want it back. When I use the term engineers I mean real electrical engineers.

A no noise recording was the elusive holly grail of recording. Than digital came along and it was realized for the very first time to a degree. Why do we want to add noise to very quiet pristine recording? Its because some like obscuring noise that didn't let us hear what the real sound really was. Its a question of purity.

How many spend time listening to live music that is unamplified in great acoustic environments?

The first time one hears the human voice from a great singer without sound reinforcement in a proper environment than one will know what I am talking about.

Recordings in general are shadows of the real thing. Adding stuff to them in the form of noise just adds more obscuring distortion to what is already compromised by the very fact its been recorded.

One reason we tolerate this is rock music embraces distortion but its also always been amplified.

If you listen to music that is not amplified traditionally in a good listening environment one would be amazed at what one can hear. No recording can duplicate that. Its our job to try hard to get as close as is possible but its not completely achievable. Digital is our best hope.

Now to bring this back to reality one can add stuff if it will sound pleasing. Just keep in mind that its a distortion.

Very nice post John, imho.

I expected to be yelled at for posting that. Its what I firmly believe but many would find it, shall we say, less to their liking.

Mauricio thank you for understanding it.

As far as I can tell you already have an outstanding system in the form of the VS 700. If you were to get the Behringer it would be a downgrade. I have nothing against Behringer either.

John

ProMusic27

John

But I really have this impression that when you put all the channels together things turn a little muddy and small.

Use EQ to clean up the tracks and carve out space for your instruments. Use Channel Tools to add some width. Use the Concrete Limiter to get a loud output. Be sparing on the reverb. Adjust volumes on tracks with care. Try to cut rather than boost volumes. Finally get Ozone.

The only thing an analog mixer will add is noise. 

Bad noise or good noise?


My Waves NLS have a button called "noise"... A good one I think.

There is no such thing as good noise.  Whatever one may think about this if you add stuff to a recording and its not intentional its a form of distortion. In fact any noise is.

The best way to think about this is if its not there in the instrument to begin with than its an artifact or a distortion. When you listen to live music that has not been amplified what noise is added? That sound should be the sound we are after. I don't buy the notion that analog noise is a good thing. For years engineers have been trying to rid audio circuits of noise yet those that for some reason like analog want it back. When I use the term engineers I mean real electrical engineers.

A no noise recording was the elusive holly grail of recording. Than digital came along and it was realized for the very first time to a degree. Why do we want to add noise to very quiet pristine recording? Its because some like obscuring noise that didn't let us hear what the real sound really was. Its a question of purity.

How many spend time listening to live music that is unamplified in great acoustic environments?

The first time one hears the human voice from a great singer without sound reinforcement in a proper environment than one will know what I am talking about.

Recordings in general are shadows of the real thing. Adding stuff to them in the form of noise just adds more obscuring distortion to what is already compromised by the very fact its been recorded.

One reason we tolerate this is rock music embraces distortion but its also always been amplified.

If you listen to music that is not amplified traditionally in a good listening environment one would be amazed at what one can hear. No recording can duplicate that. Its our job to try hard to get as close as is possible but its not completely achievable. Digital is our best hope.

Now to bring this back to reality one can add stuff if it will sound pleasing. Just keep in mind that its a distortion.

Spot on John...I helped my Son-in-law design and build his first 1176 comp, he now owns Mohog audio...he ran a studio in San Diego for a number of years and he told me "You are a noise freak" because I could hear noise and it bothered me that others dismissed...I took my Taylor back twice (With its very nice Neve designed preamp system) and the tech at the factory looked at me kind of dumb-founded because U complained about the small amount of line hiss, he said it was well below industry standard and I said, "Its completely unacceptable to me"...they ended up installing a special grounding system to get it below -80 db...my son-in-law has become a noise freak now that he builds and sells the gear, and I can promise his stuff is pristine quiet...unlike the racks of analog high end gear I prefer over the box...


I think if the OP is simply wanting a summing box there is a simply transformer based passive summing box design at GroupDIY...

Both of you (John and BillyBob) are very kind.

Thank you for the input...

I looked at DIY Endless Summer kit and apparently they sold out the 16 channel version... Only 8 channels channels now... But it was a good, yet affordable, tip...

I din't try to order to find out if it can be shiped to Brazil... You know, my country is a very complicated place to got importations by mail... 

I've noticed that this unit is very like Roll's Folcrom, isn't it? But costs 1/10 the price... So, it should need a pre-amplification for the stereo output, right?

Peace.

Correct, but in an ideal environment you should be running a separate output amp anyway, that or powered speakers.

I think noise wise and for purely summing a passive attenuated transformer box is the way to go, Dangerous is way overpriced for what it actually contains, but if you are not a mild level electronics DIY'er (like I am, very limited) go ahead and get a console...I truly do not believe you will regret it.

In the last 20 years there have only been a handful of gear purchases that were complete and utter failures, everything else is simply a tool that can be adapted to your audio design.

I think we get lost in gear lust and forget the first rule of audio, it's your sound, it sounds like what you choose and you are the one who determines how you get your sound.

Every engineer needs a signature...that can come from either specific gear chains or through a series of evolutionary discoveries forced by gear chains...

I got a behringer .eurodesk.sx4882.I switch it on .and it works fine then I switch it off ..when I switch.it on again  nothing . then nothing for a few days  then it comes back on  .   help please