@bats

Recording a single performance with two Mics and panning them differently is stacking? I'm not sure.

In general I meant to give methods to give a sense of stereo width. Stacking was just one of those methods.

When capturing the vocal in two Mics, the bleed from other instruments can change what the Mics sound like.

I always get a kick out of all the cymbal that comes through the drummers Mic. I often have to mirror the drummer's Mic volume envelope with the cymbal/overhead Mics.

batsbrew
yea, but those guys are talking about stacking (adding) tracks, not widening.
 
two completely different goals/end results.

Here's a video of a guy who did both.    The bg vocals are L-R-C.   But then he added a stereo chorus to widen the vocals, which is what i want.
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ifTcpPiqtY
 
But when he adds chorus, it sounds good.   Mine sounds phasey and unnatural.  
 
Greg 

I like what this guy did ...... beginning at 8:05.  Seems like an easy way to do it, and it gets pretty much the same result.
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bhAFdjvN58w
 
Greg

greg54

batsbrew
yea, but those guys are talking about stacking (adding) tracks, not widening.
 
two completely different goals/end results.

Here's a video of a guy who did both.    The bg vocals are L-R-C.   But then he added a stereo chorus to widen the vocals, which is what i want.
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ifTcpPiqtY
 
But when he adds chorus, it sounds good.   Mine sounds phasey and unnatural.  
 
Greg 

greg,
you know you can add automation to your effects, right?
 
why not add an envelope, and bring up the chorus effect when it needs to be obvious, and fade it out when you don't want it?
 

 
 

batsbrew
greg,
you know you can add automation to your effects, right?
 
why not add an envelope, and bring up the chorus effect when it needs to be obvious, and fade it out when you don't want it?

There is so much about recording that I don't know.   I'll check it all out.  
 
Thanks!
Greg

Yeah, I agree with what the others said - what I suggested will give you way wide vocals, and they'll be huge. But if you have existing vocals you want to widen them without actually wanting to record anything else, that's a different thing to what I was describing.

Automating chorus can be good, or a very carefully dialed in flanger with the feedback out of phase can do wonders. It's that phase cancellation in relation to the source tracks that'll give it the spread.

What I really like to do, to add extra width without the stacking, is run Waves Doubler 2 on a buss. Recreating that with stock SONAR effects, I'd put in a Sonitus delay on a buss (or Aux track), set left to 50ms, right to 55ms, no feedback, 100% wet. And then I'd run a Sonitus modulator with either the flange idea like I mentioned earlier, slow chorus or Ensemble, and have the balance more towards the wet end rather than the dry.

Then run a send on each of your vocal tracks to this doubler buss - for me it's usually around -12db send level but it's all to taste.

Basically you get a spread from the slapback delay and that's widened further from the modulation, but you're controlling how much you want to use this with the send from the track.

Works great on vocals (even a lead vocal can sound good with a bit added), clean guitars, synth pads... Heaps of good applications. :)

Thanks, Lord Tim!   I really appreciate it!   I think I will try your suggestion.
 
Greg

I've very recently tried to get this effect as well. In the past I've used the Cakewalk Phase plug-in which has a Stereo Widener preset that works, but introduces some weirdness I often don't want.
 
BUT I came up with two tricks that work great. One is to actually add a reverb to the vocals and set the delay to very short. This "reverberates" the vocals (assuming you leave the effect stereo) without adding any echo. The second technique is a total cheat: I double the vocal lines with very quiet cello tracks that are panned LR. I turn them down low enough that they don't register as cellos, but add a richness to the vocals (these are male voices, don't know if it would work for female).
 
It's been maddening. I'm trying to replicate the sound in Mancini's smooth 60's songs, like Charade and Days of Wine and Roses, which has been challenging, because it has this terrific warmth, and simultaneously sounds completely mono AND has a width.

jkoseattle
I've very recently tried to get this effect as well. In the past I've used the Cakewalk Phase plug-in which has a Stereo Widener preset that works, but introduces some weirdness I often don't want.
 
BUT I came up with two tricks that work great. One is to actually add a reverb to the vocals and set the delay to very short. This "reverberates" the vocals (assuming you leave the effect stereo) without adding any echo. The second technique is a total cheat: I double the vocal lines with very quiet cello tracks that are panned LR. I turn them down low enough that they don't register as cellos, but add a richness to the vocals (these are male voices, don't know if it would work for female).
 
It's been maddening. I'm trying to replicate the sound in Mancini's smooth 60's songs, like Charade and Days of Wine and Roses, which has been challenging, because it has this terrific warmth, and simultaneously sounds completely mono AND has a width.

The past couple of days I've been recording vocals, L+R+C for some harmonies.   It really does sound nice, getting the effect I wanted.
 
Your trick about using low volume with a cello, I've done that as well (or some similar instrument).   It also can add to the vocals.   But when singing words and using different consonants and vowels, I find it necessary to use actual voices.
 
I've read a couple of articles that talk about keeping a lot of the mix mono (drums, bass, lead vocals, etc) while using only a couple of things to get width and a stereo effect.    
 
Good luck with getting Mancini's sound!
 
Greg
 
 

We should clarify that stereo wideners do not work on mono sources.  There are effects that can create a stereo effect from a mono signal.  Waves has one, PS22, Bob Katz made one, and Brainworks has one that I like to use on occasion when I cannot mic an instrument in stereo.  
 
Other than that, a short room or reverb send can create the openness lost in a dry mono mic recording.