• SONAR
  • Editing audio in Sonar (p.2)
2017/05/27 18:11:09
vdvorn
I have installed the Sonar Tool Editor from the link above and IT WORKS even with Sonar LE! The audio files are opened in Adobe and can be easily edited there.
 
Cactus, thanks a lot for a very helpful advice...
 
2017/05/27 18:17:49
vdvorn
Anderton
Wave editors and multitrack recorders are different animals. Magix Sequoia probably does the best job of combining the two, although it's pricey - around $3,000. Audition is a good wave editor, but pretty incomplete when it comes to multitrack recording.
 
However there are some surprising wave editing functions in SONAR, like being able to cut, copy, and paste individual samples. That's saved me a few times when there were clicks from digital overs. I also normalize "rogue" half-cycles prior to mastering so I can raise the overall level without having to apply dynamics. 
 
I've done articles for Sound on Sound on mastering in SONAR, you can get pretty far for basic applications. The upcoming eZine has a monthly column, "You Mix, We Master" where I master a reader-submitted song, explain what I did, and post the before and after on Cakewalk's YouTube channel.


Anderton, thank you, I will read and see your valuable materials on mastering.
2017/05/27 19:25:40
Cactus Music
The thing is sure Sonar can do a lot , but if you are used to working with software and that software can be intigrated into Sonar then this is a better workflow situation. As I keep saying, Sonar takes way to many mouse clicks to get to the same place one mouse click will get you in say Wave Lab. 
 
Here's an exercise just for fun: 
Say you have 10 songs for an album and they are stereo wave files. The level of each song is different and you want to even them out.  
 
In Wave lab I open the folder containing my Album. all the songs can be quickly opened and become tabs. 
If you edit a song and close it, WL will ask you if you want to save,,, just like all software. 
 
Open the Normalizer and the global Analyzer and any tools you might use.  
Check the peak level, and normalize if required. 
Check the average RMS level  and render to your target if required. It here you want every song the same.  
Continue opening each song, checking, rendering if needed and saving-  note: the tools all stay open and ready to use for each song. 
 
Now do this in Sonar, that's right, each of these steps involves a lot more navigation, You have to re open the normalize tool for each track. And does anything analyze for you? If you open a track do you know if it's peaking without playing it?   not only that,, you have to go through a bunch of steps to export the song. WL just saves it in 3 seconds. Done. 
Anyhow.. I love Sonar as a multi track sequencer and I love my WL for working with stereo files. my 2Cents.
 
So that you scook for the tool menu editor as this give us the best of both. 
 
2017/05/27 19:40:26
vdvorn
Cactus Music
The thing is sure Sonar can do a lot , but if you are used to working with software and that software can be intigrated into Sonar then this is a better workflow situation. As I keep saying, Sonar takes way to many mouse clicks to get to the same place one mouse click will get you in say Wave Lab.

As for me, I have a problem, because I can only learn the program, when I work upon the songs. :)
 
Working upon the recent song learned me particularly to work with the Markers Tool. I remembered it from my experience with Cakewalk at 90th and now it was TREMENDOUSLY useful to navigate thru the song.
 
Though Sonar for some reasons have no shortcut to move left and right in Piano Roll or Track Views, working with Marker Tool replaced it.
I don not know may be the same option is in Adobe also, but I just did not use it, because I could navigate manually...
2017/05/27 20:49:52
THambrecht
I have Adobe Audition and Steinberg Wavelab. But I do all audio editing in SONAR.
We use Adobe for batch processing hundred of files and Wavelab for pan-normalizing. SONAR is much faster in audio editing as other software. We earn our daily money with daily editing audio in SONAR.
SONAR has of coarse a very good audio view and you can (of course) change volumen of a selected part of a clip. (Apply-Audio-Effect  ->  Gain).
For all other effects (smooth voice ...) I use (for example) iZotope plugins in the SONAR effect bin and apply the effect to the clip (apply audioeffect). It is not necessary to go into the editor from any other audio editor.
With SONAR and a lot of exercise you can restore thousends of tapes ten times faster as with other software like Adobe or Steinberg.
 
2017/05/27 21:47:31
Cactus Music
OK, you've said this  a few times and I believe you, What I'd like to know is your exact workflow for the above situation. How do you use Sonar to quickly take 10 songs and make them all the same RMS level. You must have discovered some good short cuts that I'm unaware of. 
 
You see it can be a 2 way street. 
I've learned how to use Wave Lab and it's sort cuts.
You've learned how to use Sonar and it's short cuts.    
So it's as simple as that. You prefer Sonar for wave editing because you've found away to do it fast. 
I prefer Wave Lab for wave editing because I've found away to do it fast. 
 
But I'm still curious as to how you can do the above exercise faster that I do it.  
2017/05/27 23:26:47
THambrecht
@Cactus Music
Because we restore tapes from artists, broadcast and TV, the main work is to restore the sound quality (frequency response) of the songs and to elimante noise. For example a lost piano concert from 1962 or a orchestral recording from 1974. We also restore old vinyl for new CD-Production. In most case the tape is lost.
Because we do 95% classic music, there is no need to make the 1. Allegro the same RMS level as the 2. Andante or the 3. Largo. Because we don't want to change the dynamic of a classical concert. That would be fatal.
To measure the RMS level for other songs I use plugins from Nugen Audio in the SONAR FX bin. To make all the same RMS level I do this by hearing and measuring with this plugins. Then I do multiband dynamics, limiter, exciter ... manually by hand. And I look, that the voice, drums ... are at the same level through all songs. No matter what the RMS level says.
Also we get thousend tapes from thousend clients with music from the radio or old family recordings. We only have to record and restore the sound quality.
This is cutting thousends of hours from tapes and vinyl in hundred thousends of songs or text passages.
 
 
2017/05/28 03:40:53
Cactus Music
Yes I have done a little of that type of work myself when I had the studio in a commercial space. People would pay my $50 just to take a LP and burn a CD. At first this was done directly from the turntable or Cassette deck to a Philips CD burner. Later of course  CD burners started being part of  a PC. That's where I first found Wave Lab. I'd record in real time, enhance and then burn to CD. I still have about 50 folders in my old back up drive with all sorts of projects like this. Everything from local Choirs to someones cassette recording of a funeral service.  
 Keep up the good work. I know you must take pride in what you do :) 
2017/05/28 12:55:44
Steve_Karl
vdvorn
 Though Sonar for some reasons have no shortcut to move left and right in Piano Roll or Track Views, working with Marker Tool replaced it.



Sonar has hotkeys for go to Previous or Next Measure ( left and right ) and they work in both Track View and Piano Roll View.
2017/05/28 15:20:31
Anderton
I'm able to bypass the "Wavelab" stage when mastering albums by creating the premixes in SONAR, then assembling the album in Studio One Pro. Each cut in SOP has a Waves L3 Multimaximizer, and I use SOP's analytics to get a consistent DR. Then I listen to the assembled album and make any subjective tweaks. In general I find normalizing to peak or average less effective than taking the DR reading.
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