2015/11/22 01:46:52
orangesporanges
Personally, I like the master (the 2nd half) because it seems to be louder, BUT it also brings out the nuances of the instruments and vocals more. I hear the filters in the bass synth more and the breath in the vocals. Bet it sounds better on PA speakers too.
2015/11/22 05:47:46
Soundblend
Yepp the first part is the original mix only ( not mastered )

The problem with the song is to much variation in the track's and an overall "dull" mix

some problems to point out :

1. to much bass, cluttered and boxy low end and overall dull mix
2. the filtered sharp sounding synth behind the vocals and the placement of it ( should be more panned as well )
3. lack of details in the mid range, in some track's
4. way more present high end in the drums, compared to rest of the track's
5. unbalanced vocal, some places the vocal is more upfront

to mention something..


EDIT: Made a new Master
In this last " mastering " i made it simple using only :

1. Channel tools to add a tad of more side signal, and adjust the left channel by -1 db
2. Prochannel EQ
3. Concrete limiter

Thats all ....

What i have learned, the more you stack up with plugins like EQ's and so forth
you most likely will " loose " overall control over the sound and probably mess it up more.

When you take away ( attenuate ) frequencies to adjust the overall EQ, other frequencies will boost
that is an issue when mastering a stereo track, it wont help to attenuate those as well, then you will
end up at point zero again.

Less is more :
When mastering.. keep it to a minimum, listen and adjust carefully
be sure to take breaks, and rest your ears....
if you don't get the sound you want at the final, start fresh and do it all over again.

I would love to use an MB compressor before the limiter to tame some frequencies
but cakewalks MB compressor, just did not help out in this case...

Well i am not quite satisfied, there's to much bright end in the master on the drums
but what can you expect, of an unbalanced mix....

As said by others, do it right in the Mix to begin with, or you will get trouble at the " mastering stage "

At last, the best way is to hire a great Mastering studio to do the JOB, they have all the best hardware equipment
and gear for the job , as well well great treated room and several monitors and have great experience.

If you cant afford that, well maybe the way is to go with hardware DSP cards and UAD plugins
But you need a good room to mix in as well, and be sure to know what you're doing and what to do, and not to do.

Hope this is helpful to someone..
2015/11/22 06:36:28
Soundblend
EDIT :

New image
 Made a new Master
2015/11/22 08:59:18
Jesse Screed
I am finding too, that what the experienced forum members are sharing is true.  Though the following may appear as if I am being obtuse, I think it is another example of the general bent of this thread.  The University of Strategic Highway Research Council found similarly the same truth. 
 
https://www.extension.iastate.edu/forestry/publications/PDF_files/SHRP-H-320.pdf
 
Scroll to page three.  I have copied this and placed it above my monitor.
 
I know, weird, but I have always been an ideator, though not one of popular merit.  So although you may find this of no use to your particular issue, the concept seems to be universal, at least to me.
 
Jesse
2015/11/22 16:09:18
orangesporanges
My wife made an astute observation on one of my masters recently. I asked her which sounded better master 3 or 4. She said very calmly that she could not really tell the difference in a studio environment. She went on to say that in a real listening environment, like while at work or in the car, she doubted very much if she would notice  ANY difference. I followed her advice and picked my favorite and started  my next song.
2015/11/22 18:32:16
codamedia
I'll just add my 2 cents, even though they aren't much different than what has already been said.
 
Fixing a bad mix in a master is like trying to fix a bad take (vocal, guitar, etc...) in the mix. It's better to go back and get it right to begin with - whenever possible. Having it right open the doors to options and creatively in the next process... rather than back tracking and trying to fix things.... which is terribly counter productive.
2015/11/22 19:42:09
mettelus
Interestingly, I have been trying to use this point as leverage to get an old friend to step into the DAW world. He has done some amazing things with a Tascam 424 4-track (overdubbed BGV and the whole nine yards), and he feeds bass/kick in one track with a Zoom RT-234. He definitely has a "one-take" philosophy, so all the aptitude is there, it is just getting across the "mix" aspect.
 
To add insult to injury (for me), he had sent me stereo mix downs which were not so great, so I spruced them up to "decent" fairly easily. For him this was "magic," but for me I have been trying to drive home more possibilities. I have told him repeatedly, "If you give me 24-bit stems I can really show you something," but so far that has hit an impasse. 1) Using a DAW is foreign ground for him, and 2) he lacks hardware necessary. When I started doing things with him he began looking at guitars/amps (his setup is perfectly fine!), and I simply said, "You are killing me here... look at interfaces." In a way this is highly comedic, but terribly frustrating.
 
Hopefully I can goad him across that bridge at some point, but I can commiserate with the OP because of this one... I do not expect a great mix, but also do not expect a great master - not possible.
2015/11/22 19:47:06
Soundblend
mhh.. what can i say, i tried to mix after a spectrum analyzer with M/S signal
that went very.. very bad, even if i used a Demo of Fabfilter PRO Q 2 ... Duhhh..

The clue is to use your ears and make it simple, and that worked... forget the meters XD

In this last " master " i used :

1. Channel tools to add a tad side signal, and adjust the left channel by -1 db
2. Prochannel EQ
3. Concrete limiter

Image :

2015/11/22 20:33:54
Soundblend
mettelus
Interestingly, I have been trying to use this point as leverage to get an old friend to step into the DAW world. He has done some amazing things with a Tascam 424 4-track (overdubbed BGV and the whole nine yards), and he feeds bass/kick in one track with a Zoom RT-234. He definitely has a "one-take" philosophy, so all the aptitude is there, it is just getting across the "mix" aspect.
 
To add insult to injury (for me), he had sent me stereo mix downs which were not so great, so I spruced them up to "decent" fairly easily. For him this was "magic," but for me I have been trying to drive home more possibilities. I have told him repeatedly, "If you give me 24-bit stems I can really show you something," but so far that has hit an impasse. 1) Using a DAW is foreign ground for him, and 2) he lacks hardware necessary. When I started doing things with him he began looking at guitars/amps (his setup is perfectly fine!), and I simply said, "You are killing me here... look at interfaces." In a way this is highly comedic, but terribly frustrating.
 
Hopefully I can goad him across that bridge at some point, but I can commiserate with the OP because of this one... I do not expect a great mix, but also do not expect a great master - not possible.




I have a new friend now by a music group in FB, that uses Boss BR-800 i think to record with
He asked questions why he could not get anywhere.. no one answered, rather than me.
He was very pleased with some answers, and i did comment a lot, bad and good, he struggles with tempo issues and
the solo on the guitar etc.., but he's improving.

I told him to get a DAW software, then recommended Sonar Artist to start off with, i now have him
as a Facebook friend, and i did remote control his computer with Teamviewer, to set Sonar up for him
and with a template with some tracks and buss'es..
I have contact with him and give him advice about his takes ( recording's ), and mixing at a basic level
to help him improve his songs.
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