• Computers
  • General advice on best configuration of new i7 based PC and SONAR setup
2016/04/11 06:13:02
NotYouAgain
Hello everybody.
Sorry if this reads as a long winded post, but I found you don't get good advice unless the people you are asking it from know the details.
I'm new to the forums, but have been visiting them on and off for several years.
Always meant to get into home recording, but "life" happened along the way, so never have managed it....but I'm determined to do it now.
 
A few months ago I built a PC for Graphic processing [Photoshop/ Lightroom], but it hasn't been getting that much use, and is basically underutilized.
So, since I play guitar and other string instruments [No Uke], and the price point for a capable DAW and good control Interfaces are now NOT as astronomical as they used to be, I thought I might as well bight the bullet and duel purpose this PC.
 
The spec's pf this PC are i7 4790 [I could upgrade it to newer 'K' 'overclockable version' if deemed worthwhile- I somehow doubt it], Gigabyte H97 gaming 3 M/Board, 32 GB RAM, Nvidia GTX 970 GC, 2 X Samsung 850 Pro SSD's, 1 X WD Green 2TB HD.
 
I've got Win 8.1 [trying to stop MS installing Win 10, and will if I have my way ], and apart from Photoshop & Lightroom there is basically nothing else installed on this machine.
 
I want to purchase and run Sonar Platinum, as I figure the learning curve is going to be steep [Yet Again] anyway, pointless learning a slightly reduced version of Sonar [Last time I was at the nearly buy in stage, it was Sonar 6 , I even bought Sonar Power  and Cakewalk Synths books to learn them beforehand.... stuff happens ]
 
I'm building this home studio [apart from the PC] from scratch, so please consider any advice given as if you were to build from scratch yourself, with today's most current  gear
 
From pursuing the forum [ And Sound on Sound reviews ], a likely candidate for a suitable USB interface for my needs would be a Steinberg UR44.
I haven't decided on a controller keyboard [ I basically want to create soundtracks type music], and being a Guitarist first and foremost, really wouldn't know what would be suitable] Go For it, all advice welcome.
 
Plug-in's I'll want to run, well basically anything and all by Cinematique Instruments.

I figure I wouldn't need much else given what's included with S/Plat, as long as I choose wisely on which 3 A/Drums packages I choose.
 
Vocals & Acoustic guitar/ string instruments could be recorded from a separate room, so noise from the PC picked up by  microphones shouldn't be a issue.
I'll probably get a hardware controller to run Sonar.... after looking through the forum, and Sound On Sound forum/ reviews/ archives.... I was thinking of opting for the Behringer X-Touch [nice price - does the Job ?], but after watching these two videos.

 

I think I'll opt for the Mackie Control pro ... I'm nearing retirement age, I can't BB messing around mapping the X-Touch so it works NEARLY as well as the Mackie.[Having to disengage all but the one wanted track to zoom in on that specific track to edit it-see video 2 , was what turned me off]
I'd rather spend the $$ and not have to trouble shoot.
 
Having built HTPC's [well all my PC's] I know certain windows functions can cause gltiches in playback, so some windows functions are best turned off, likewise to save system resources.
I suspect the same is [still] true with recording.
 
So, how best to configure this PC for the applications ahead?
I guess NOT having the PC connected to the internet whilst recording would be one of the big ones, also turning auto update off for programs would be another.
If there is a specific recommend windows configuration thread that is up to date, could somebody please link ?
What functions/uses tend to cause noise problems [clicks/ pops etc] within Sonar when they are engaged? [Don't say none because I won't believe you ]
 
The questions I have below are on things I am unsure about, and basically don't know [things have changed in intervening years, from when I did know] .
I prefer to build my PC's with a separate OS drive, and if possible run all other programs off a separate internal drive used only for that purpose, this saves possible OS & registry corruption, and makes a clean install far less painful if it just has to be done.
 
Q1: Can Sonar be installed in this way?.... Any drawbacks to doing so? If not, what sized drive is recommended , with some sort of future proofing ?
 
Q2: Where should one install sample libraries? On a separate drive? ...best practice? What drive size is recommended for samples? How fast access do the sample drives need to be [what is the slowest you can get away with is more the question? ]
 
Q3: Photoshop & Lightroom both can have a 'Scratch Drive' assigned to them for them to do the work on [one of my Samsung 850 pro's are assigned as such] does Sonar work in the same way? can it be configured to use a scratch drive as a work space?
Can the VRAM of my Graphics card be utilized by Sonar, like it can be by PS/LR? [expecting NO ]
 
Q4: Any  [ 'Best practice] pointers regarding delegating system resources for specific tasks or to reduce possible system noise?
 
Q5: Any [ Best Practice ] on using multiple screens to run Sonar and soft synths [My GC can run 3 monitors...should I even bother considering it? ] Would you, if you could, run as many monitors as possible, or is too much INFO decremental to productivity? [Sort of ends up like a too involved in the garage with the engine , rather than ever driving the car situation]
 
If anybody has actually got to the bottom of this post and is actually reading this. well thank you for your perseverance, or lack of something else to do 
Double thanks if any forum members can link me to forum posts that can help me out, if not answer the questions asked directly.
 
Cheers
 
 
 
 
2016/04/11 08:31:43
fireberd
My general "2 cents".
1.  I like Win 10 over Win 8/8.1.  Win 10 seems to be what Win 8 should have been.  On Win 8/8.1 I used "Start8" for menus (made it look/act like Win 7) but on Win 10 that is not needed.   My useable (reliable) latency for my Roland Octa Capture has been reduced from 6 to 4ms.  All my hardware and software that worked on Win 7/8/8.1 is compatible and works with Win 10.
 
2.  I have a UR44 (my backup unit) and it has Win 10 drivers.
 
3.  I have the OS and Sonar Platinum loaded on my OS drive (an EVO 850 SSD) and Sonar Projects, etc on a 1TB hard drive.  (I have some applications such as Band-in-a-Box installed on the 1TB hard drive and operate it from there).
 
4. Other than setting the power plan to High Performance and disabling standby (the only item I have on "standby" is to power off the monitor after 1 hour) I haven't really done any tweaking.  The PC was originally built for Win 7 and then dual boot with Win 8/8.1 (and now dual boot with Win 7/Win 10) and no other tweaking has ever been done.  I do disable the NIC (internet) when using Sonar, but even that may not be needed.   I am a (retired) PC tech so my PC is basically a "vanilla" system. 
2016/04/11 11:37:27
bitflipper
My, that was a long first post. So many questions, but all good ones. Pardon my less-verbose replies, in no particular order...
 
1. That PC will make a fine DAW
2. Windows 10 is superior to 8.1
3. Yes, some third-party plugins (e.g. FabFilter, Meldaproduction) do make use of your GPU, but most do not. 
4. Multiple video displays are VERY helpful and highly recommended. However, keep in mind that you do not want them to impinge on the line-of-sight to your speakers, so that will limit the size of your monitors.
5. SSDs don't really do a lot for DAW performance, with one notable exception: sample libraries. If you're wondering where to get the best bang:buck ratio for SSD space, put your sample-based virtual instruments there. Sample libraries are big; some are over 30 GB, and even a bunch of smaller ones add up fast. Figure on at least 500 GB to start.
6. There is no problem installing SONAR and your other music software somewhere other than C:, and keeping the O/S drive pristine. Ideally, you'll want to keep audio files and sample libraries on separate disks for best disk efficiency. Where you install SONAR is less-important, but you may find the path of least resistance is to put it, and add-on plugins, on the C: drive. That's where they want to install themselves anyway, and they don't take up much space.
7. Most of us don't have luxury of separate tracking and control rooms, and many actually prefer to do everything in one room. But you're right about computer noise being a potential problem. Some cases are quieter than others, but since you're not building the DAW PC from scratch you'll have to work with what you've got. The good news it's not that hard to do, as long as your room isn't too small. 
8. Audio interfaces are generally very high quality these days, so choose yours primarily on features, e.g. number of channels and vendor reputation. If money is no object, RME represents the high end of the consumer range. You can spend more but it's not necessary, and you can spend less without making any serious compromises.
 
2016/04/11 20:03:39
tomixornot
Most of us also run this DPC Latency Checker to check if there is any problem that can be fine tuned on our DAW PC, but it's only good up to Windows 7. They are working on a new version to be compatible with Windows 8 (and 10 hopefully).
 
It's a good read and you will also find out a good way to optimize your DAW PC even without running the checker (basically turning off your wifi). With the recommendations posted above, you may find that with a fast processor and newer Windows you may not have to tune it much.
 
http://www.thesycon.de/deu/latency_check.shtml
2016/04/12 00:09:21
tomixornot
Just read the post by fireberd

http://forum.cakewalk.com/FindPost/3399147

This supports Windows 10
2016/04/19 04:31:47
ston
> So, how best to configure this PC for the applications ahead?
 
I'd press the power button, job done.  Separate physical drive from the OS for recording to.  Separate physical drive again for the swap & hibernate files.  That's about it.
 
> I guess NOT having the PC connected to the internet whilst recording
 
Why?  What do you think will happen?
 
> turning auto update off for programs would be another.
 
I always set that to being as 'manual' as possible, at least that way you can vet which updates to install, and when to install them.
 
Other than the 'will you please stop nagging me to upgrade?!' aspect of W10, it's an improvement over 8/8.1  Just disable Cortana, install Classic Shell if you think it's needed (a must, IMO, for W8), set updates to manual, do not install flash and you're good to go.
 
[ed] Personally, I'd got for a PCIe based interface rather than USB.  My own PC's USB subsystem is rather heavily burdened, but my interface is actually on a PCI bus and works flawlessly even though the USB performance does suffer at times.  Depends what else you're going to use USB for; if little or nothing then USB should be fine.
2016/04/19 14:22:00
Sanderxpander
I concur with most of the other posts. Mostly you don't need to do any customizing, especially since your system is already pretty streamlined. I have never had any problem with my RME UCX which runs on USB. I've also hooked up a Madiface USB to my laptop at a gig and had no problem recording 48 tracks at 48KHz 24 bit from a DigiCo SD7 mixing desk. I suppose if you're planning to stream lots of samples over disks connected to USB it might be an issue.
 
EDIT:
Oh one thing I'd recommend if you're planning to do a considerable amount of vocal recording is to upgrade to the full Editor version (or even Studio version) of Melodyne, if they offer you a deal. The integration with Sonar is excellent and you can do some great things with it.
2016/04/19 19:29:43
JonD
ston
...
[ed] Personally, I'd got for a PCIe based interface rather than USB.  My own PC's USB subsystem is rather heavily burdened, but my interface is actually on a PCI bus and works flawlessly even though the USB performance does suffer at times.  Depends what else you're going to use USB for; if little or nothing then USB should be fine.

 
This is a tad confusing.  Are you saying he should go for a PCIe interface?  There aren't a lot of those to choose from, and what there is, is expensive.  Your description seems to suggest, however, that he use a PCIe USB add-on card for the USB interface.  If that's what you meant, I wholeheartedly agree.
 
Firewire is another great option.  Lots of interface choices.  And I'd still do the PCIe add-on card (only, of course, with firewire); the card sidesteps any possible issues with onboard FW (assuming there is even onboard FW), and perhaps most importantly, future-proofs the interface since PCIe isn't going away anytime soon.  
2016/04/20 01:53:43
Sanderxpander
Firewire is a bad choice because it's on its way out. It will work fine on this OS if you get a good PCI/FW card. But there's no telling about the future. Not to mention if you'd ever want to use the interface on location with a laptop. For maximum compatibility, USB is the way to go. The problems that used to plague the first generation of USB interfaces are gone. If the Madiface USB can stream 64 tracks of audio simultaneously over USB reliably, I have no further questions. 
2016/04/21 08:51:27
ston
JonD
This is a tad confusing.  Are you saying he should go for a PCIe interface?  There aren't a lot of those to choose from, and what there is, is expensive.  Your description seems to suggest, however, that he use a PCIe USB add-on card for the USB interface.  If that's what you meant, I wholeheartedly agree.

 
No, that is not what I meant.
 
What I was saying is that if you are going to connect a great many devices via USB to your computer, then a USB-based audio interface solution might suffer.  In that case, your suggestion of USB on a PCIe card won't really make any difference; even if it provides another host controller (unknown..?) which is on the PCI bus anyway, that will probably help share the load on the USB bus a bit but *not* on the system.  Each USB endpoint (and each device attached via USB can have multiple endpoints) is polled every time the USB loop runs, so even apparently 'idle, doing nothing' devices are taking up USB bandwidth.  Doesn't matter if you're talking about USB ports on the motherboard or on a PCIe add-on card.
 
I have something daft like 12 USB devices (probably of the order of ~30 endpoints) attached via 8 (i.e. all of them)
USB ports on my PC; a USB audio interface solution would not be good for my set-up which is why my audio cards are PCI based (getting on a bit too now, but still pretty amazing).
 
I agree PCIe based audio interface cards are somewhat expensive, but I don't know what the OP's budget is and the additional cost will potentially bring some benefits.  Depends on the demands that the user will be placing on the system.
 
If you're going to attach nothing via USB other than the audio interface (probably mouse and kb too most likely), then a USB solution will probably be fine.
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