• SONAR
  • Amount of Pro master track space versus mine (p.2)
2017/05/15 09:40:39
bobernaut
Hi everyone and thanks for everything, I appreciate it. A couple of things-
 
I loaded up something from about 1 year ago when I was just sort of trying out different things. I actually probably picked a pretty bad master and just stuck it in there for comparison. I knew I had better so I went back into the archives, so to speak, and found more recent one's and they do fill up the track pane. However, I still do not have the same dynamics ( I think that's right), as the pro tune. They (spikes/peaks) are much better but I am still lacking in overall dynamics, meaning, I don't have very distinguished peaks and lows (if that's right). It isn't a sausage, as they call it, but not as similar to the pro song as I would like to have.
 
So, while your advice is wonderful, which it is, I am wondering what causes the ups and downs (spikes and lows) and how do I get them? Is it that I am not compressing well? Is it something which is accomplished in the recording? All of my stuff is heavy from start to finish and I actually am trying to make it that way, is that why it all looks almost the same? Because there are no dynamics really?
 
I wish I could figure this out and I would be a fairly happy person. I sure hope some of you understand what I am trying to say here. I think my songs sound pretty good and balanced and I have taken very good care to record as cleanly and as loudly, but not too loud, as I should. I feel as if I am missing something that might be simple and that maybe I didn't go to school that day and missed it.
 
By the way, no comment on the pro clipping screen capture? Why is the pro song in the red if it isn't clipping? Hope someone takes a crack at it.
 
 
And once again, thanks for all your replies, I am putting them all to use.
 
bob
2017/05/15 10:29:03
Bristol_Jonesey
There is zero evidence of clipping on the pro track, although the absence of any scaling/metering makes it a bit difficult to judge with 100% accuracy.
2017/05/15 11:14:45
chuckebaby
bobernaut
 
By the way, no comment on the pro clipping screen capture? Why is the pro song in the red if it isn't clipping? Hope someone takes a crack at it.




I don't see any clipping, I see the track maxed out though to 0db which is common with most masters.
You can clearly see there still some nice transients. The spikes are what is causing the meter to reach 0db
In the comparison shot side by side. you mix looks like its been compressed quite a bit.
If this just your mix and not your master, I would go back and remix it. Remove some compression.
the wave appears to be extremely fluent with no spikes at all (no dynamics popping through).
If this is your master than its apparent the master is not loud enough. Even if it is your master, you should still be seeing some transients.
 
Another thing to consider is your zoom of the Wave form. In order to completely compare to signals exactly, the Zoom on the vertical needs to be exactly the same. So as long as you didn't mess with the zoom on your track settings this is what I would conclude (what I stated above).
2017/05/16 05:31:57
bobernaut
Thanks for your reply, chuckebaby, I always appreciate your input...hugely. Thanks for your explanation on the clipping (which wasn't really clipping). I can't quite figure out what you mean by "fluent", though but I am guessing that it is not a good thing.
Thank you for your pointer about compression. I will go back on a better mix and cut/alter compression just to see if that produces any spikes. As far as I know, I am not using a great deal of compression nor cranking it too much but obviously there is something amiss here and now, thanks to you, I have a good place to start-which is what I wanted.
 
Thanks for everyone's replies and of course my main man for more fantastic assistance! Thanks for your help again, Bristol J.....from the UK!
 
bob
2017/05/16 19:34:20
mudgel
Of course your musical arrangement will also have something to do with the dynamics of the music.

If you don't play with any variation in volume you won't get any peaks or troughs showing either.

The peaks and troughs are the dynamics created by an interplay of the various parts of your arrangement. No change in level you won't have dynamics.

This can of course be created as the others have suggested by using compression and or limiting in the wrong way and in the wrong place, eg a track instead of the master or vice versa. Or wrong compressor settings. You could change attack to be a bit slower letting more of the signal in early before compression just as an example.

But back to my point it's always to make sure that you're arrangement isn't too full all the time. When your musical parts have room, occupying various non competing frequencies you'll have less need for heavy handed manipulation allowing you to get a good mix just using the faders and then using the other tools to polish the sound. HTH
2017/05/18 06:56:48
bobernaut
Thanks for your reply mudgel, that's pretty much what I was thinking as well (arrangement, more "empty" parts). I always have something happening somewhere in my tunes and its really difficult for me to dumb it down for the sake of the mix but I have been cutting more and more out lately in an attempt to follow this line of thinking. I keep telling myself, "Beatles-vocal, guitar, bass drum..." but that just is not my style and I really dislike anything that simplistic although, without question, this is the key to success simply because all the great rock, country, pop and more songs use this formula.
Now, for anyone still following this-
I think I have discovered my "problem". It was mostly a visual thing, I think.  I have made some adjustments on my track gains and normalized and presto! I now have a much more healthy-looking track visual. I then go back and adjust my track gains as I need to in order to be happy. I tried taking almost every compressor and nearly everything else off, played around with the master and nothing had changed so I went looking elsewhere. So, I am concluding that it wasn't so much an over-compression thing but more of a normalization thing along with a need to see a bigger and better picture of what I was doing. I don't notice much of a change after normalization as far as sound goes, but as far as visuals go, I do see something-which is what I was looking for.  I don't know if this makes sense to you wise one's, but I am a lot more happy now with what I see, and all is well. My thanks to all of you guys, I appreciate it!
 
Looks like AT might have been right on this one and thanks to everyone for helping-it was all gold!
 
bob
2017/05/18 15:04:13
Cactus Music
If your mostly using heavy distorted guitar then that can quickly max out a soundscape. 
Big fat synths can do the same. And it might be all low end energy which will also put you at 0 with no room for the higher frequencies to cut through. 
So no matter what the style of music you still need to balance out the frequencies. 
And notice you were using compressors when you might not have needed them. 
Less is best  until one gets a handle on their mix. 
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