Some plug ins and even some older plug ins don't have input controls.
you can always control your input using Compressions input along with Sonars gain control.
Gain staging is important but im never concerned where my faders are during Mixdown.
As long as they are not blowing up my master or feeding plug ins too hot, I can have a fader set anywhere from -8db to -18 db.
 
I used to like having all my faders as close to 0 as possible, looking all nice and tidy.
In the long run I realized it doesn't matter as long as it sounds good.

Hi guys.
Thanks for your input (no pun intended)
Generally I turn down all drum tracks track gain pre-recording to around -7. this gives me a end result of a kick drum of around -10 to -8 I then work off that for the rest of the mix. With these sort of levels I normally end up with a end master fader of around -4 / -5 which is ok. I do tend to lack a bit pf "punch" to some of the sounds though. One more question when using a compressor and low threshold do you guys always use make-up gain after if there is any lose in overall volume to the track? or is that just replacing the volume you've lost from using the threshold?

John
If he is using any Sonar gain adjustment while recording he may be getting inaccurate meter levels. 

Hi John
I adjust the input gain knob (at the top of the track) before recording... It has come into my mind just what that does to the meter readings.. if the meter knows the gain is set down etc...

The meter neither knows of nor cares about whatever processing precedes it. It's merely reporting a measurement of the audio at that point.
 
Do not be concerned that the peaks on your master bus are "low". This is irrelevant in the ranges you're describing. Instead, be concerned about the peak-to-RMS ratio, which is an indication of the perception of transients (e.g. drum hits) against the backdrop of average loudness. You of course want that ratio to be high enough that transients are clearly audible over the rest of the mix ("punchiness"), but it is in fact possible (and common) to start with an excessive crest factor (ratio) that requires reduction. Lowering that ratio is the compressor's main job.
 
The mastering phase is where you bring everything up in volume. This is normally accomplished by sacrificing peak amplitude in order to raise the average volume, and is accomplished through compressors and their more-aggressive siblings, limiters. But that's a separate step that occurs after the mix is done. During the mixing phase, just get a sound you like and don't sweat the numbers unless it's clipping. In fact, it's good to leave some significant headroom while mixing; -8dB is actually a reasonable target for an unmastered mix.
 
If you find that applying compression sucks life out of your mix, then dial it back by increasing attack times and lowering compression ratios. Or take the compressor out altogether. There is no rule that says you need compression at all. No record ever lost a Best-engineered Grammy nomination because it was under-compressed.
 

I think you should understand that Sonar has no control over the recorded audio. Adjusting the gain before you record will give you incorrect levels as reported by the meters. You should keep everything at unity on Sonar and do any level adjustments at the source. The reason is Sonar can not control the volume pre-converters.
 
Set your levels by reading the signal off the meters in Sonar with gain and fader set to unity. Otherwise you could be clipping and not know it. 

as stated several ways already - keep sonar settings at unity during recording. use your input devices gain control(s) to set the input so the meters are roughly -18db to -14db RMS, peaks below -6db or even -10db would be good. on high dynamic inputs, you may need to either bring the gain down further on the input device (which may increase noise depending on your unit specs) or put a compressor inline to temper the peaks.

John
I think you should understand that Sonar has no control over the recorded audio. Adjusting the gain before you record will give you incorrect levels as reported by the meters. You should keep everything at unity on Sonar and do any level adjustments at the source. The reason is Sonar can not control the volume pre-converters.
 
Set your levels by reading the signal off the meters in Sonar with gain and fader set to unity. Otherwise you could be clipping and not know it. 

Ok, it's a little bizarre because in some of the sonar tutorials I've seen on youtube gain staging is done beforehand to make sure clipping doesn't occur! specifically on session drummer... the way your describing things you think I should simply turn the input volume down on session drummer before touching the step sequencer?

Benjitara

John
I think you should understand that Sonar has no control over the recorded audio. Adjusting the gain before you record will give you incorrect levels as reported by the meters. You should keep everything at unity on Sonar and do any level adjustments at the source. The reason is Sonar can not control the volume pre-converters.
 
Set your levels by reading the signal off the meters in Sonar with gain and fader set to unity. Otherwise you could be clipping and not know it. 

Ok, it's a little bizarre because in some of the sonar tutorials I've seen on youtube gain staging is done beforehand to make sure clipping doesn't occur! specifically on session drummer... the way your describing things you think I should simply turn the input volume down on session drummer before touching the step sequencer?

Session Drummer is a VSTi and is not recording audio from your audio interface. In fact it's audio is completely internal until Sonar sends it out to the interface. In this case gain staging works. 
 
The first post asked how you are using gain staging. I even added give details. If you had mentioned that this was a VSTi and you were setting up for handling internal sound a better answer would have been forthcoming.   No harm done. What I said applies to sound you are recording outside Sonar. 

 


Session Drummer is a VSTi and is not recording audio from your audio interface. In fact it's audio is completely internal until Sonar sends it out to the interface. In this case gain staging works. 
 
The first post asked how you are using gain staging. I even added give details. If you had mentioned that this was a VSTi and you were setting up for handling internal sound a better answer would have been forthcoming.   No harm done. What I said applies to sound you are recording outside Sonar. 




cheers John
Most of my recording is done via internal sources by the look of this, the only real outside inputs being vocals and acoustic guitar. The session drummer does tend to get near clipping in default volume for the kick so i'll look to stage that early and make sure my recording levels on vocals are in that -12-15 zone.. cheers for your replies. Increasing my knowledge through you guys is great.
 
cheers
Ben

Ben I'm glad you are asking questions here and that our answers are helpful. That is what this forum is for.