• SONAR
  • Use NRPNs (For Accuracy)?
2017/05/10 06:53:30
AdamGrossmanLG
So I read somewhere that using NRPN's can yield much higher resolution of controller data.  This sound to me as pretty crucial if you want to control a softsynth's filter cutoff without it sounding to "steppy". I also noticed that using regular CC value range of 0 to 128 doesn't allow for fine tuning most parameters in software plugins.
 
I understand NRPN's are "bloated" and utilize more CPU, but I plan on freezing my synth tracks once recorded.   Does it utilize more CPU upon playback and/or just when moving the knobs on my controller?

But am I even on track with this whole NRPN thing to begin with?  I want to make sure my filter sweeps and other synth effects are as smooth as possible.

Am I correct in thinking I would need to use NRPN's from my controller instead of MIDI CC?
 
Thank You!
 
2017/05/10 08:21:04
interpolated
Since it's 7-bit data I wouldn't think it make much odds to your cpu usage. If you are going to be bouncing freezing the status anyway it will make not much odds how much cpu gets used in the first place.
2017/05/10 08:22:12
AdamGrossmanLG
thanks!  what about my main question about it being more accurate?  Would that be true for softsynth parameters?  Will I get a smoother filter cutoff if I use NRPNs?
2017/05/10 08:28:13
interpolated
Vst 2 x tends to use midi values to ascertain automation however the actual synth engine will bring any precision as it will have the full 32-bit bandwidth required for floating points calculation I reckon.

In theory more precise midi data should give a more accurate response than using standard midi data. However vst3 plug-ins may offer more promising results over vst2.x
2017/05/10 08:31:11
AdamGrossmanLG
not really sure I understand what you just wrote.  
 
I just want to make sure I have the most smooth control of the parameters as possible.   As far as VST2's and VST3's are concerned, would I have a better chance at a smoother control with NRPN?
 
Thank You!
2017/05/10 08:38:46
interpolated
So basically I think you will. It actually used 14-bit through the use of 2 controller codes at the same time. Try it and let us know you get on

What are using to control midi data?
2017/05/10 08:40:42
Sanderxpander
He is saying that the synth still has to support setting higher resolution values via NRPN. I haven't done a wide comparison but I would estimate that most don't. Most rely on "regular" midi for control input.
 
BUT, many synths (especially the ones from the last 5/10 years) have smoothing algorithms that prevent filter stepping, meaning internally they still use high resolution values and when the control input goes from, say, 63 to 64, they will calculate a few steps in between for a smooth glide rather than a sudden step. I'm sure that's oversimplifying it but I'm not a programmer. In any case, unless you're really zooming in on a sound and modulating a narrow range of filter cutoff values, it's usually not a problem.
 
Are you having specific issues with a synth and filter stepping? Be careful that you're not mistaking overtone resonance for filter stepping, even analog synths do that, it's simply a part of the way oscillators and filters interact.
2017/05/10 08:41:07
AdamGrossmanLG
interpolated
So basically I think you will. It actually used 14-bit through the use of 2 controller codes at the same time. Try it and let us know you get on

What are using to control midi data?



I am trying to if I could ever get this Novation Zero SL MKII to work!!!  Sonar won't pick up its knob turnings i am doing :(
2017/05/10 08:43:09
AdamGrossmanLG
Sanderxpander
He is saying that the synth still has to support setting higher resolution values via NRPN. I haven't done a wide comparison but I would estimate that most don't. Most rely on "regular" midi for control input.
 
BUT, many synths (especially the ones from the last 5/10 years) have smoothing algorithms that prevent filter stepping, meaning internally they still use high resolution values and when the control input goes from, say, 63 to 64, they will calculate a few steps in between for a smooth glide rather than a sudden step. I'm sure that's oversimplifying it but I'm not a programmer. In any case, unless you're really zooming in on a sound and modulating a narrow range of filter cutoff values, it's usually not a problem.
 
Are you having specific issues with a synth and filter stepping? Be careful that you're not mistaking overtone resonance for filter stepping, even analog synths do that, it's simply a part of the way oscillators and filters interact.


Very helpful, thank you very much.  Actually, I havent found any issue with MIDI CC, but wanting to try out NRPN but I'm having issues with my Novation unit at the moment.
 
Thank you for your help!  Interpolated too!
2017/05/10 08:53:54
AdamGrossmanLG
hmmm actually its not a novation problem.  I can get the Novation to control Sonar stuff like volume, panning, etc... but softsynths are not listening to the MIDI CC coming from the Novation.   I might make a new post for this as it seems to be Sonar related now that I see the Novation is controlling stuff inside of Sonar but not the VSTs
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