SquireBum

jbraner
Hi,
 
I'm not trying to be funny - but I don't really see that much of a reason for the MIDI transform tool.
For example - isn't it easier to just use the freehand tool to re-draw your CC data the way you want it? Rather than enable the transform tool, pick the right selection, work out what you're doing, drag the correct corner...
 
I'm sure it's just me, but I think it's easer to just use the smart tool and re-draw CC data, or volumes (which overwrites what's already there).
Hopefully, I'm missing something - and there is a more useful reason to have this tool

The attached image shows 8 bars of CC #1 used to modulate volume for Violins I in Garritan Personal Orchestra.  You may have greater mouse drawing skills than I do, but I certainly would not want to redraw these 8 bars with the exact shape when I wanted to scale the volume up or down by 10%.
 
I am not being sarcastic, but using your analogy, Cakewalk could just remove the ability the change the length of an existing note with the mouse and just force the user to erase the note and redraw it.
 

 
Hope this helps,
-- Ron

Ron, you've made some good points.
 
Walt

but I certainly would not want to redraw these 8 bars with the exact shape when I wanted to scale the volume up or down by 10%.
 
I am not being sarcastic, but using your analogy, Cakewalk could just remove the ability the change the length of an existing note with the mouse and just force the user to erase the note and redraw it.

 
Hi Ron,
I'm not being sarcastic either - I really meant to ask an honest question, and always assume that it's me who's missing something ;-)
 
How did you get those modulation curves in the first place? Just by random twiddling of the mod wheel right? So what's the big deal with re-drawing them with a mouse - you might make them "better" ;-)
You literally just drag your mouse over and see if it sounds better or not. If not, ctrl-z and you're back where you started.
 
If they're not "random", then you've drawn them in with a mouse in the first place- right?
 
 

Why play a keyboard if you can just enter the notes in PRV?

Kamikaze - I'm not sure what you mean by that.
 
honestly - I started this conversation fully expecting to be educated as to what I'm missing... ;-)

Test
 
Edit. Forum doesn't like my reply

jbraner
 
How did you get those modulation curves in the first place? Just by random twiddling of the mod wheel right? So what's the big deal with re-drawing them with a mouse - you might make them "better" ;-)
You literally just drag your mouse over and see if it sounds better or not. If not, ctrl-z and you're back where you started.
 
If they're not "random", then you've drawn them in with a mouse in the first place- right?
 
 

Why play a keyboard if you can just enter the notes in PRV?

Kamikaze - I'm not sure what you mean by that.
 
honestly - I started this conversation fully expecting to be educated as to what I'm missing... ;-)

 
It's performed data, not just random twiddle and hoping. With the windcontroller, it's your breath that is shaping the note. Regards my comment, I mean, you play a keyboard to create notes you want at the velocities, duration, timing etc. You could just programme, but you don't because you can create a better feel , and you may make small adjustments after. It's the same with a wind controller, or a breath controller, it's date created with purpose. It's not just random movements, and I may be very happy with the shape, the timing,  the feel, but I need to bring down the start a touch, bring up the middle. There could be 30 odd notes in a passage, all with a movement of the breath CC for each note.
 
Wind and breath controllers are a means of creating very expressive performances. with wind cntrollers, you play like a sax, and with breath controllers you add expression will playing the keyboard.

With ASDR you shape the envelope of the filter and amp, which makes them respond like a percussion or plucked instruments, such as a piano and keyboard. With wind, brass and bowed strings, the don't have a fixed shape. So playing with a breath controller allows you to do the shaping an ASDR would do, but with a constant changes after the attack. When I programme an analogue, I bring the ASDR level down, and create more modulation through the CC2. I treat an analogue more like a wind or brass instrument.
 
That's just CC2 data, The reed on my Wind controller is a pitch bend for adding vibrato, and there is a further mod whell that can be assigned to a 3rd CC (but that's beyond my playing). Some of the guys programming orchestral performance, have at at least three CCs on the go, for nearly every instrument. Having a tool for finely tuning a good performance is going to be welcomed by some.
The expression show on this video show how using Velocity, Pitch and Exprssion add to the realism. The data was played on either a an Akai or Yamaha wind controller. The sample set has an option to being either played by a wind controller or a piano, which saves me doing the changes that I would make on an analogue

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRLxqY285gU
 
Someone has already mentioned, can we have this for Automation, so hopefully it will spill over, because it ise very intuitive for tuning the data.
 
Sorry for the chop up of a post, something was causing the forum to spit it out. Possible an attempt to embed the video

With a breath controller, compare the beginning with after 1:24
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5j1CUY2ELtE
 
The Seaboard rise.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jh-hzbG5FzI

Hi Kamikaze,
Yup, I get it for wind and breath controllers - that is a performance.
 
For all the rest, it's just a "performance" on the keyboard, that you probably want to tidy up afterwards anyway - like using CC data for your strings volume etc.
 
Anyway - I'm happy the transform tool is there, although I probably won't use it (much).
 

Breath controllers are on a keyboard, this like the seaboard rise are.....on the rise. keyboardist us mod wheels and pitch bends, and foot pedals.
 
Even if you are drawing something and it takes you five attempts t get it right, the tool is handy for making later adjustments, and saving 5 more possible attempts.
 
It reaches a bit further really.
 
 

jbraner
 
Hi Ron,
I'm not being sarcastic either - I really meant to ask an honest question, and always assume that it's me who's missing something ;-)
 
How did you get those modulation curves in the first place? Just by random twiddling of the mod wheel right? So what's the big deal with re-drawing them with a mouse - you might make them "better" ;-)
You literally just drag your mouse over and see if it sounds better or not. If not, ctrl-z and you're back where you started.
 
If they're not "random", then you've drawn them in with a mouse in the first place- right?
 
honestly - I started this conversation fully expecting to be educated as to what I'm missing... ;-)

The modulation curves were initially drawn by hand.  The shapes of the curves and levels were fine when the track was solo'ed.  When other tracks were added, it became necessary to globally scale the level of all of the CC's in some phrases to better balance with the rest of the instruments while maintaining the shape of note swells.  Hand re-drawing the curves to increasing the overall levels while maintaining the existing shapes of the curves was a slow, inaccurate, and repetitive stress inducing process.
 
I don't think you are missing anything.    The Transform tool is just another tool in the toolbox.
 
The Transform tool improves the efficiency and accuracy of scaling large groups of CC events without the tedious and inaccurate effort needed to redraw.  I think of it in the same way that Quantize improves the efficiency of moving large groups of MIDI notes closer to the grid without having to drag each individual note.
 
-- Ron