• Techniques
  • HAAS Effect using stock plugins? Sonitus Delay? What's your settings?
2015/10/13 10:31:25
magik570
Please let me know how you achieve HAAS effect.. If you use other plugins (other than Sonar stock plugins), would like to know about it. 
2015/10/13 12:04:29
TheMaartian
I use Haa5 from Apex Audio Technologies. It's his only plugin, so far. Nice and easy.
 
https://www.apexaudio.org/products/haa5-haas-effect-vst-au/
 

 
From his blog:
 
This VST / AU plug-in uses stereo delays to create what is known as the “precedence effect”,more commonly referred to as the “Haas effect” after Helmut Haas who’s 1949 Ph.D. thesis first described this psycho-acoustic phenomenon.
 
The Haas effect creates a sense of direction by using the same system our own ears use to locate sounds in the natural world. By creating a slight delay between the left and right signals the listener perceives a sense of direction depending on which ear hears the signal first. So, if the right signal is delayed, then the left ear will pick up the sound first, causing the sound to seem to come from the left; and vice versa.
 
Using the Haas effect, one can create a much more attuned and surgically precise stereo image. And, because the concept relies on psycho-acoustics the Haas effect lends itself to a much more natural panning effect than standard rotary potentiometer panning, which merely adjusts the volumes of the left and right signals separately to create an artificial and less real sense of direction.
2015/10/13 12:46:39
Beepster
The Channel Tools delay is transparent and easy to use (IME). You gotta make sure you configure it right to take your mono track and output stereo (I think it does that by default but whatever... read the CT help file). Then it's just a matter of turning up the delay knob.
 
There is an exact number of milliseconds where delay stops being a Haas effect (stereo spread) and becomes and actual delay. It something like 35ms or lower so watch out for that.
 
Cheers.
2015/10/13 13:13:56
Beepster
Oh... and it should be noted, since you asked and may not know, you don't have to use any plugins to acheive Haas.
 
Just clone your mono track then use "Nudge" to move the clip in the clone down the timeline. Remember that Haas type delay stops being a stereo spread above a certain number. To me around 20ms works pretty good.
 
I used to (and still do) use the clone and nudge technique but it adds an extra track (which has it's benefits but is mostly a drawback).
 
Do NOT use Haas on stereo tracks because they are already stereo and unless both sides are identical (which indicates someone screwed up their record input) you're just gonna make a mess (and it won't be the Haas effect).
 
All that said, Danny (Danzi) and others immediately urged me to avoid Haas tricks unless necessary almost immediately after I first mentioned it around here. This was in reference to guitar tracks.
 
Ideally you should record a double track in those types of scenarios (so practice the sh*t out of the part and match up the closest takes... even if you have to comp together two perfect takes). It's much more work but sounds way better.
 
Sometimes though you can't double liek that... like a blues solo or something that can't be perfectly doubled. In that case Haas is great but really a stereo delay might be better (and some slight chorus which is a kind of delay from what I've been reading).
 
/not a pro
//yet
2015/10/13 14:28:33
mesayre
Beepster
The Channel Tools delay is transparent and easy to use (IME). You gotta make sure you configure it right to take your mono track and output stereo (I think it does that by default but whatever... read the CT help file). Then it's just a matter of turning up the delay knob.
 
There is an exact number of milliseconds where delay stops being a Haas effect (stereo spread) and becomes and actual delay. It something like 35ms or lower so watch out for that.
 
Cheers.




This is the method I use. Pretty straightforward.
2015/10/13 14:41:24
Beepster
mesayre
This is the method I use. Pretty straightforward.




Is that a French horn in your pic? Cool. You use this technique on your horn parts?
 
Inquiring minds and all that.
 
:-)
2015/10/13 17:05:19
sharke
I've never managed to set up a Haas effect which sounded satisfactory in mono. If you listen to that Haas effect in mono and then listen to the same part in mono without the Haas, there's no denying that the non-Haas part sounds better. So you have to ask yourself, is it really worth sacrificing your mono sound just for a fake stereo effect? I've always thought there were way better ways of creating a stereo part.
2015/10/13 17:27:09
Beepster
sharke
I've never managed to set up a Haas effect which sounded satisfactory in mono. If you listen to that Haas effect in mono and then listen to the same part in mono without the Haas, there's no denying that the non-Haas part sounds better. So you have to ask yourself, is it really worth sacrificing your mono sound just for a fake stereo effect? I've always thought there were way better ways of creating a stereo part.



???
 
Isn't Haas taking a mono signal, copying/delaying the copy then outputting the result in stereo?
 
Outputting to mono... well that seems like it would just smear the end result (which I think was one of the issues/problems I was warned about in my original inquiry many moons ago).
 
IIR the original theory (put into practice) was taking a single mic output then sending it to two PA horns with one slightly delayed (I read that on Wiki).
 
Meh. What do I know. I try to double whenever possible these days.
2015/10/13 18:58:49
dmbaer
The problem using Hass and subsequent mono-reduction is comb filtering.  The delayed signal (in the range of 30 to 50ms, typically) is close enough to the original that both constructive and destructive wave recombination occurs when collapsing back to mono, the amount of which depends on the frequency and the delay time - nothing you can do about it.  The problem is not a muddy sound, but a potentially anemic one since all the frequencies in the original are no longer present at correct levels.
 
If budget permits, pick up MStereoSpread from MeldaProduction the next time it's on sale for 50% off.  It's an absolutely brilliant solution that avoids the mono-incompatibility issue.  Another very fine solution is Voxengo's Spatifier, which avoids (at least, statistically) mono incompatibility as well.
2015/10/13 19:13:13
Beepster
dmbaer
The problem using Hass and subsequent mono-reduction is comb filtering.  The delayed signal (in the range of 30 to 50ms, typically) is close enough to the original that both constructive and destructive wave recombination occurs when collapsing back to mono, the amount of which depends on the frequency and the delay time - nothing you can do about it.  The problem is not a muddy sound, but a potentially anemic one since all the frequencies in the original are no longer present at correct levels.
 
If budget permits, pick up MStereoSpread from MeldaProduction the next time it's on sale for 50% off.  It's an absolutely brilliant solution that avoids the mono-incompatibility issue.  Another very fine solution is Voxengo's Spatifier, which avoids (at least, statistically) mono incompatibility as well.




Ah yes... it's coming back to me now. Funnily enough any time I use Haas (clone and nudge) I check it in mono instinctually but had forgotten about the potential phase issues. I just picked up the habit.
 
So if I go to mono and hear phasing I nudge a little more (or less) until it goes away.
 
Another reason why Channel Tools is easier to use because if there is that phasing/cancellation... you just gotta adjust the delay dial back or forth.
 
Actually a good way to hear the negative effects (so you can listen for and avoid them).
 
Majick... listen to these other guys. I'm providing curious beginner concepts to research. These dudes are speaking more from experience which trumps my blathering any day.
 
Cheers.
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