Beepster

sharke
I've never managed to set up a Haas effect which sounded satisfactory in mono. If you listen to that Haas effect in mono and then listen to the same part in mono without the Haas, there's no denying that the non-Haas part sounds better. So you have to ask yourself, is it really worth sacrificing your mono sound just for a fake stereo effect? I've always thought there were way better ways of creating a stereo part.

???
 
Isn't Haas taking a mono signal, copying/delaying the copy then outputting the result in stereo?
 
Outputting to mono... well that seems like it would just smear the end result (which I think was one of the issues/problems I was warned about in my original inquiry many moons ago).
 
IIR the original theory (put into practice) was taking a single mic output then sending it to two PA horns with one slightly delayed (I read that on Wiki).
 
Meh. What do I know. I try to double whenever possible these days.

 
What I meant was that when you set up a Haas effect on an instrument and check your mix in mono, that instrument sounds a lot worse than it would if there was no Haas effect on it.  

+1, the issue with the Haas effect is that it is trying to replicate the programmed sense we all have of one source being delayed in each ear - as soon as you have two sources (speakers) it throws comb filtering/chorus/echo into the mix (depending on the delay) as well as is highly dependent on the listener's position to the speakers. Without including traditional panning (volume reduction in the "further" side), it doesn't yield the same effect.
 
Most of what I have seen with Haas effect focuses on delay, but the volume component is also huge and programmed into us all. This also mitigates the comb filtering that can come into play when you truly have two sources instead of one.

mettelus
... the volume component is also huge and programmed into us all. This also mitigates the comb filtering that can come into play when you truly have two sources instead of one.

We actually experience the precedence effect all the time in the real world, comb-filtering and all. But we're rarely aware of it because the delayed sound is usually quieter than the first sound. It's why we can still pinpoint where a sound is coming from even when it's being blurred by room reflections.
 
According to Haas' research, the delayed component must be at least 15 dB quieter. That's still enough to generate significant comb filtering when the two signals are folded to mono, but it's possible to achieve a balance that still works as long as the two signals are not identical.
 
Where practitioners fail most often is when they attempt the effect via the lazy trick of cloning a mono track and delaying the clone. That's going to encourage comb filtering. But double-track a part and then apply a delay to one of the tracks, and the comb filtering will usually not be any more noticeable than the comb filtering that happens when you hear a live band in a nightclub. If you're intent on using the clone shortcut, then apply heavy complementary EQ to both sides to at least minimize comb filtering.

bitflipper
then apply heavy complementary EQ to both sides to at least minimize comb filtering.

This right here is one of those "missing peices of the puzzle" tidbits for me. Will definitely keep that in mind.
 
I've only seen it done once before in a tut and did not realize how it tied into the stereo effect being created.
 
Thanks.

I guess an extreme version of the complimentary EQ technique would be Waves PS22 Stereo Enhancer which distributes the spectrum across left and right in a waveform pattern so that both sides essentially interlock. It's almost perfectly mono compatible. Pricey though, I probably wouldn't have purchased it separately if not part of a pack. 
 

 
 

I may be getting a little off topic but here is a good way to widen a mono track with no mono compatibility problem:
On your mono track create a send to a buss. Put "Channel Tools" on the buss. Set "Channel Tools" for 30 mS (or whatever you like) on both L and R. They must be the same or it won't work. Set only one of the channels in "Channel Tools" to invert the phase. Bring up the buss volume slider until you get a good balance between the original mono track and the "Channel Tools" buss and you hear the widening happening.
The inverted phase plus the non-inverted phase delay will create the widening effect. Now press your mono button. What happens? The delayed signal disappears completely because the opposite polarity signals completely cancel out each other!
 

This is a pretty effecting mono-safe widening plugin and it's free - I keep forgetting I have it. 
 
http://www.kvraudio.com/p..._open_ambience_project

sharke
This is a pretty effecting mono-safe widening plugin and it's free - I keep forgetting I have it. 
 
http://www.kvraudio.com/p..._open_ambience_project

32 bit only however, I believe.

32 bits = irrelevant in this case.
 
It's been quite awhile since I tried the Sheppi, but my recollection is that I didn't care for it. In any case, it's no longer on my computer. Here's one I liked well enough to carry forward from my 32-bit days: Hbasm Stereoizer. It's also 32-bit only, but works fine in 64-bit SONAR under 64-bit Windows 8. There are both free and paid ($19) versions. 

bitflipper
32 bits = irrelevant in this case.

Why would that be? I've worked to eliminate virtually all 32 bit plugs, and reliance on bit bridge and JBridge and my system stability has improved significantly. At least up to now, I don't share your faith that appearing to run 'well' in 64 bit Sonar means long term stability. But maybe I've prematurely written off some 32 bit plugins too. Just curious.