• SONAR
  • Feature request for Piano Roll: Waveform Composition Tools (p.2)
2017/04/24 03:13:57
abacab
vladasyn
It is interesting to note that in the past, Cakewalk was known for their MIDI implementation. The Protools had no MIDI tools and was more for the live instruments recording, while Cakewalk was the best MIDI sequencer. Now it sounds like all other DAW have better MIDI editing tools and Cakewalk is behind. The Piano roll as well as Staff view are white and empty. There is nothing there. Time to catch up, since we not going Mac any longer!




Sonar has become an awesome virtual recording studio!!!
 
But I can recall when Cakewalk was the best MIDI sequencer on Windows.  I think that they are now possibly the best virtual recording studio on Windows.  The Bakers need to shift focus now on bringing the MIDI features up to date!!!
 
I have seen some comments on the forum that seem to imply that using MIDI tools is somehow cheating.  I would have to respectfully disagree with that assumption.  For a couple of centuries it was necessary to use paper and pen to compose music.  Same with writing a book or article.  Does using a word processor with spell check constitute cheating? Using the power of a computer to remove the drudgery of data entry is not cheating!
 
Using a computer to assist with composition is simply to speed up the creative process and eliminate the manual data entry step by step.  I understand that some musicians wish to simply compose offline and then use the computer as a tape recorder.  But Sonar can be so much more than that.  Other applications are filling that gap.  Catch up please!!!
 
I am in favor of any tools in Sonar that help with the creative phase of music making ,..
2017/04/24 04:13:02
vladasyn
I would like to be able to draw the controllers (CC). I recorded the knob movement real time the other day for Cutoff and wanted to edit it. Went to Piano roll, and there it was, I could see it. But when I try to alter it with the pencil tool, it was jump from line to line, add unnecessary points, combine entry points together in one- nothing close to slop I needed to draw. Simple line up and down would not happen.  
2017/04/24 04:14:37
vladasyn
I can play the chords fine, but they are never exactly the same length for each note as it takes time to move the hand, so it would require Quantize. Oh, and should I start about the Quantize? That thing always masses everything up.
2017/04/24 17:48:07
abacab
vladasyn
I can play the chords fine, but they are never exactly the same length for each note as it takes time to move the hand, so it would require Quantize. Oh, and should I start about the Quantize? That thing always masses everything up.




Have you seen the new swing grid in Reaper?  We need this is Sonar!
 
Now Playing: NEW: Swing Grid
http://www.reaper.fm/videos.php#ZY3fiDV8hIE
2017/04/24 18:47:02
THambrecht
When every DAW has such a feature we don't need musicans to make the songs. Then everything sounds the same. According to this feature, Dieter Bohlen worked in the 1980s. All songs sounded the same.
The special thing about music 2017 is that you do NOT work according to this scheme.
Do YOU make music, or the computer?
Still 5 years of development and a button makes the complete song.
 
2017/04/24 19:53:22
abacab
THambrecht
When every DAW has such a feature we don't need musicans to make the songs. Then everything sounds the same. According to this feature, Dieter Bohlen worked in the 1980s. All songs sounded the same.
The special thing about music 2017 is that you do NOT work according to this scheme.
Do YOU make music, or the computer?
Still 5 years of development and a button makes the complete song.
 



Based on your comment I would assume that you see a computer only as a tape recorder.  There's nothing wrong with that view, as Sonar is the best tape recorder I have ever used.
 
But just because a computer can be used to create a song, it doesn't mean that all musicians want their computer to do so.  Some may just want a little help with exploring creative possibilities with rhythms, or scales and chord progressions that may not be familiar.  Breaking out of habits and comfort zones, etc. 
 
Good tools can help a good musician become even more productive, especially if they inspire them to create.
 
The better music composition tools today still let you pick everything out.  It just frees you from the drudgery of the data entry one note at a time.  Makes transposing or inverting a breeze.  Piano players can write with guitar voicings if needed, without having to learn guitar.  Being a composer is different than being a player.
 
Is an author writing a novel with a computer word processor instead of pen and ink considered to be letting the computer write the book for him???
2017/04/24 21:22:09
THambrecht
@acab
I'm a little bit old school, because i write songs not within the DAW, I use a piano or a guitar.
Then I do the harmonies in the head and write it without any instrument on the paper. Then I record the composed song with SONAR.
When I grew up I had to use 2 tape machines (from 1975 - 1995) and recorded via ping pong from tape to tape and played one instrument after each other. You can't correct what you have recorded before. This was an other learning curve to make songs.
 
 
 
2017/04/24 22:49:14
abacab
THambrecht
@acab
I'm a little bit old school, because i write songs not within the DAW, I use a piano or a guitar.
Then I do the harmonies in the head and write it without any instrument on the paper. Then I record the composed song with SONAR.
When I grew up I had to use 2 tape machines (from 1975 - 1995) and recorded via ping pong from tape to tape and played one instrument after each other. You can't correct what you have recorded before. This was an other learning curve to make songs.
 



Well the Beatles made many hits bouncing 4 tracks together, so it really is all about matching skilled artists with skilled engineers. 
 
But the music world has come a long way since then.
 
My father was a professional musician, and I can still remember the day (back when I was knee high to a bullfrog) that the Beatles made their American debut on the Ed Sullivan show.  My parents thought it was the end of Western Civilization!!!  OMG!!! That's not music!  Anybody can play three chords, etc.!!!  BTW, I was not allowed to listen to rock music in the house or car.
 
Now the Beatles are among the royal legacy of rock and roll artists.
 
I'm not saying that the current popular music is good (IMHO), but it is real, and dominates the market.  The way that music is made now has changed a bit over the years due to technology. 
 
I had several years of formal music training in school, but as an adult music has only been a hobby for me.  I never learned to play the guitar or piano, but I bought a synthesizer over 30 years ago and electronic music has always appealed to me.  Artists like Kraftwerk, Tangerine Dream, Jean-Michel Jarre, Vangelis, etc., are my inspiration.  The use of sequencers and arpeggiators is necessary for creating those kinds of works.
2017/04/24 23:39:20
Kev999
Chords are an important part of a song's arrangement and I'm fussy about them. I almost never use the standard inversions or simple triads. I set different velocities on each of the notes, sometimes widely different. I usually don't want all the notes hitting at exactly the same time on the beat; I prefer to have them slightly early or late by different amounts. And I often like the different notes to tail off one by rather than all finish together. I wouldn't be happy with automatically generated chords.
2017/04/25 00:42:12
abacab
Kev999
Chords are an important part of a song's arrangement and I'm fussy about them. I almost never use the standard inversions or simple triads. I set different velocities on each of the notes, sometimes widely different. I usually don't want all the notes hitting at exactly the same time on the beat; I prefer to have them slightly early or late by different amounts. And I often like the different notes to tail off one by rather than all finish together. I wouldn't be happy with automatically generated chords.




Nobody is saying that auto generated chords are a be all, end all, for creative work. Just use your imagination!
 
That is just a starting point for your personal inspiration!  Season to taste!  A good MIDI editor should allow you that feature!
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