• SONAR
  • Feature request for Piano Roll: Waveform Composition Tools (p.3)
2017/04/28 03:49:14
vladasyn
THambrecht
When every DAW has such a feature we don't need musicans to make the songs. Then everything sounds the same. According to this feature, Dieter Bohlen worked in the 1980s. All songs sounded the same.
The special thing about music 2017 is that you do NOT work according to this scheme.
Do YOU make music, or the computer?
Still 5 years of development and a button makes the complete song.
 




OMG! Did you say Dieter Bohlen???? I love that guy. He gave me a dream and meaning in life! When I HEARD, "yOU MY hEART, YOU MY SOUL", IT WAS IT. I KNEW WHAT I WANTED TO DO WITH MY LIFE!
Sorry for the caps. I was in love with his vocalist Thomas Anders for years. Inspired me to write a book and make a lot of music. I don't think their music was the same. Abacab makes good point about the type writer. I actually used to write a book by hand (About Modern Talking- no kidding- I was 15 then). And I will tell you that typing makes writing much easier. Especially the spell check and when it offers me choice of words to replace repeating words. I look at auto chords the same way as I am looking at using Word processor and spell check.
 
Please, note that the choice of chords and arrangement is still mine. I would still have last word in decision of how I want these chords to sound. because you using different method to write the song (on piano or guitar), you have no idea how ridiculous it feels trying to enter 8 3 notes chords. 24 notes. Takes like 10 minutes, because you have to count the lines and figure out the note length. I need all my notes to start at the same time for arpeggiator to work, this is why playing them not the solution. If I could just enter "I, III, V" instead, it would be sooo much faster. I could use that time to actually create better arrangement.
2017/04/28 17:55:56
abacab
vladasyn
 
If I could just enter "I, III, V" instead, it would be sooo much faster. I could use that time to actually create better arrangement.




That is the feature I like best in Waveform! 
 
For example, start a new project set to C Major.
 
Drop in two blank MIDI clips onto separate tracks.
 
Select the first clip, then in pattern generator select "Pattern Style: Chords" and choose I-iii-V  (default setting is Key: Follow Global Track).  The triad chords (Cmaj) (Emin) and (Gmaj) are inserted into the clip.
 
Then select the second clip, but in pattern generator select "Pattern Style: Bassline" and choose I-iii-V.  The root notes for (Cmaj) (Emin) and (Gmaj) are inserted into the clip.  No need to copy notes from another track.
 
You can add as many tracks as you like this way.
 
Then say you decide to change the whole project to A Minor, or whatever, just switch the global project key in the tempo track and the generated MIDI clips follow, making the necessary chord changes to fit the MIDI clips into the new key. Or you can insert a key change into the tempo track at the current cursor position anywhere in the project timeline. 
 
[Edit: changing the project key does update the chord names in the generator, but you need to refresh the chord selection [I-iii-V] to update the MIDI notes for each step in that progression to match the new key. But if you have extended that clip to repeat many copies of that progression, that change ripples through all copies of the progression in that clip.]
 
How cool is that???
2017/04/28 23:35:12
Cactus Music
What I'd see is a tool up there with the smart tool etc called "cords" 
If selected a right click would open a dialog where you chose the chord you want and plunk it on the PRV. 
Even something simple like that would sometimes save me time. 
Normally I play all my cords on the keyboard, but here on this computer I don't have a controller so I have to hand draw them. 
2017/04/29 00:32:37
abacab
Cactus Music
What I'd see is a tool up there with the smart tool etc called "cords" 
If selected a right click would open a dialog where you chose the chord you want and plunk it on the PRV. 
Even something simple like that would sometimes save me time. 
Normally I play all my cords on the keyboard, but here on this computer I don't have a controller so I have to hand draw them. 




Exactly!  I like the improvements that the Bakers have made recently to PRV! I'd have to say that it's becoming very usable!
 
But the competition is providing some serious creative tools for the MIDI composer.  The chord insert functions are becoming more common elsewhere.  I would like to see Cakewalk catch up in this arena!
2017/04/29 01:15:51
Andy3252
I have to admit I took a look at Reason 9 today since they state they are now going to include VSTs in 9.5 (a free update from 9) and was amazed by their chord, scale and arpeggiator modules, would love something like that in SPlat as Music Theory isn't my forte and I get fed up keep looking at my chords in scale crib sheets.
 
https://www.propellerheads.se/en/reason/instruments/player-devices#scales-chords
 
I know you can get 3rd party stuff, I actually have some, but if it was inherent in the PRV or application it would be awesome.
 
PS.  I ain't going to move away from SPlat, it was just a follow up on the news about Reason and VSTs I was looking at, ahem
 
Cheers
 
Andy
2017/04/29 01:59:26
abacab
Andy3252
I have to admit I took a look at Reason 9 today since they state they are now going to include VSTs in 9.5 (a free update from 9) and was amazed by their chord, scale and arpeggiator modules, would love something like that in SPlat as Music Theory isn't my forte and I get fed up keep looking at my chords in scale crib sheets.
 
https://www.propellerheads.se/en/reason/instruments/player-devices#scales-chords
 
I know you can get 3rd party stuff, I actually have some, but if it was inherent in the PRV or application it would be awesome.
 
PS.  I ain't going to move away from SPlat, it was just a follow up on the news about Reason and VSTs I was looking at, ahem
 
Cheers
 
Andy




I totally get what you're saying, bro!!! 
2017/04/29 02:22:12
Kamikaze
Cactus Music
What I'd see is a tool up there with the smart tool etc called "cords" 
If selected a right click would open a dialog where you chose the chord you want and plunk it on the PRV. 
Even something simple like that would sometimes save me time. 
Normally I play all my cords on the keyboard, but here on this computer I don't have a controller so I have to hand draw them. 


You can do this by creating a bank of cords in the browser, and dragging to the track. If you create a 'groove' clip and name in say 'Cmaj7'. (seems you need to make it a groove clip for the clip to retain it's name when dropped back in). You can then see your cord progression  written on the track headers. This would mean setting up banks or chords for all the Keys. Another way, would to to name the clips IMaj7 ii7 iii7 IV7 V7 vi7 vii7b5, all for C, drop them in a transpose.
 
Yesterday I tried setting up a having a clip with a full cord on every octave, over about 4 octaves. The goakl being that an in-assigned midi track for all the cord tones could be seen behind the track I'm working on in PRV. A faux Chord track or sorts.
 
I think having a chord track so when you are in the PRV, you could click and hold a key with your mouse that would make midi notes snap to the cord tones, in the same way we can snap to a keep. It would make editing cords, inversions, dropped voicings etc much easier.  
2017/04/29 03:53:54
Cactus Music
Well you just explained very clearly why Sonar has gotta be clunky when you need to do a workaround like that!! 
Forget it. 
I have a feeling this is something that will happen as Cakewalk really needs a midi makeover. 
Even though I can be a 100% audio recording guy,,, I use midi a lot and always will. Midi is my roots and the PRV still is about the same as it was back in the 80"s. The smart tool is about the only "new" thing I've seen. 
2017/04/30 07:20:54
Rob[at]Sound-Rehab
Interesting threat but a repeated discussion (there was a lot about it in the arranger track feature request) ... over there I got hit for saying I can live without a copy of what the other companies implemented because I still hope Cakewalk is cooking up something bigger (they must be as it has been mostly fixes and small improvements in recent months and it's been a while since game changers like mix recall and patch points) ...

so I'd love to see a chord/arranger track which incorporates arranging with audio involved - imagine fragments from different sources: MIDI piano + MIDI synth pad + first recorded guitar licks as WAV + a first vocal line for the chorus as WAV ... now go and arrange that into a proper concept ...

I got my hopes up for what they call ripple editing but have idea whether it goes this way
2017/04/30 23:07:51
abacab
Rob[atSound-Rehab]
Interesting threat but a repeated discussion (there was a lot about it in the arranger track feature request) ... over there I got hit for saying I can live without a copy of what the other companies implemented because I still hope Cakewalk is cooking up something bigger (they must be as it has been mostly fixes and small improvements in recent months and it's been a while since game changers like mix recall and patch points) ...

so I'd love to see a chord/arranger track which incorporates arranging with audio involved - imagine fragments from different sources: MIDI piano + MIDI synth pad + first recorded guitar licks as WAV + a first vocal line for the chorus as WAV ... now go and arrange that into a proper concept ...

I got my hopes up for what they call ripple editing but have idea whether it goes this way



This is a great demo on how to use a chord track in Cubase to control a whole project:
 
Using Cubase the Chord Track To Run an Arrangement
 

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