• Techniques
  • Mastering Guys (and Gals): Is this mix ready for mastering or would you send it back? (p.5)
2015/09/24 22:52:17
batsbrew
ideally,
i believe the best way to learn mastering,
is to start with the simplest approach.
 
EQ,
 
and nothing else.
 
then after you feel real confident about what you are doing with EQ, begin to add some compression.... single band....
 
then later, branch out to multiband.
 
then, finally, go to the limiter, and figure out how much is sweet, and how much is ruined.
 
all the rest is clownphuckery
2015/09/24 23:35:16
John
Jeff Evans
Hi beeps. For matsering it is fine in terms of levels. It seems to be sitting around -16 dB rms and it gets up to -14 dB rms after that loud hit around 2.20  So there is room to get a little louder.
 
I think it is very full on and there is a lot going on. (great though) Vocals are a little buried. The drums sound is a little drum machine or mechanical like so I would be trying hard to still keep that feel but somehow make the drums much more real. The thing with the drums is that feel is so fast and intense it will be harder to manage everything else and fit everything else into the drum feel. But it should not stop you though. It is almsot as if the drums are taking up the whole space. But because you have so much extra rtuff going on, they are being pushed back a little. This type of music and feel is hard to get it all in there. Not easy to mix a track like this.
 
I am just wondering if there is a way to edit the kick groove and drop some of them out (creating a little more space) but still create that intense fast driving groove at the same time. Not sure. If I were mixing a track like this I would get the drums and bass and vocals happening right up front and in your face then get the guitars in after. What I notice on the best heavy metal type tracks is despite the guitars being loud and in your face the drums never seem to get lost either.
 
It is 44.1K and 24 bit on my system too. Great track though and it sounds like you have spent a lot of time on it too! Thanks for sending.
 
 
 
 


Everything Jeff is saying I fully agree with. Its actually a very nice song. I believe it needs careful remixing. Metal is not my comfort zone. Yet I think this song is high energy but not fully metal. I like that. 
 
What I mean there are melodies and chord shifts that are musical within the song that could be more emphasized. Heavy metal is not all that musical to me. I can barely hear the vocal. The drum stands out as somewhat machine gun like. If this was intended it doesn't work. The musicianship is high quality. Nice and tight. 
 
I would not try to get it louder. 
 
Please understand I hate to give an opinion on someones music. 
2015/09/25 02:05:17
Lord Tim
Gotta agree once again with everyone else who suggested simplicity first here - don't get too far ahead with what you're trying to do.
 
The tools we have available now are amazing. They'll give us options that previously would have spelled the end of a mix without either re-tracking or sending to a scary good engineer to untangle and make it sound great. But at the core of it, if the basics aren't working, there's already a problem that needs to be addressed before bringing in the specialist tools.
 
I'd start with looking at the EQ and compression for everything at the track level first, EQ first and foremost. Don't worry too much about delay based effects or modulation or anything, just keep it simple. Get the relative balance of everything happening first, and carve out their sonic space with EQ.
 
Things popping out weird? Sure - time to hit the compression on each track after that. Things like vocals will definitely need it, bass too in most cases. If you're using sampled drums, you're not needing to worry so much about adding crack with slow attack times on the snare, or anything crazy like that, it's usually all done for you.
 
Get the balance right, then start looking at getting the space happening with reverbs, ERs, delays, chorus, etc.
 
Once that sounds good, THEN look at the faux mastering side of things. Save a mix recall of it all (Yay, what a killer feature!), and then strap a limiter on your master bus and give it a good crank. You'll hear immediately what's changed in the instrument balance. The width and the sonic space will stay the same but the relative levels of everything will dramatically change. Readjust again to the same places you liked in the un-smashed mix (maybe turn your master down so you're not letting the extra boost in loudness fool you into thinking something is better), and you're most of the way there. Obviously you need to take the limiter off before you export for your mastering engineer though. Expect your mix to sound terrible without it! HAHA! But that's the whole point - the mastering guy/girl will be giving it the final crush and polish and will fix that stuff.
 
But jumping forward and thinking you need to do that first or use any any surgical plugins to fix stuff BEFORE trying everything else will be a lesson in frustration. That's putting a coat of paint on a rusty car without fixing the holes first. 
 
I definitely think you're on the right track with the mix already, but simple is the key and following the right order in the chain along will help you stay focussed and on track rather than getting distracted by other things that may help.
 
Unrelated - Danny: I'll give Clone Ensemble a shot properly again, it could be a good tool to have in the arsenal. I tried it ages ago and it was good but didn't quite give me what I was looking for as compared to doing the job for real, so I didn't spend a lot of time on it after that. (This was the free version and has long since disappeared from my system). I'll leave it there because I don't want to derail this thread but this sounds like a cool line of chat we could continue in another thread sometime. 
2015/09/25 09:20:46
bitflipper
Hey Tim, been giving your stuff a listen. Outstanding quality and creativity.
 
But with all that good music, why do you guys look so glum?
 

2015/09/25 10:32:28
Beepster
Hi, guys. Lots more great advice I'm most definitely soaking up. Just popping in to provide that "five minute" remix of my old tune Danny asked for. I actually carefully yanked all the important bits out of the TOTAL mess of a project file that was the original and got them into a new Platinum project. This was literally the first real project I did with X1 (the only other one before that was a loop based thing). I was a total hack job because had only had Sonar for maybe a month and was just goofing around with riffs/licks/beats so I had some material to work with. I'll explain a little more later.
 
So here is the mix I made yesterday literally in about 5-10 minutes. I did another little bit this morning (maybe 15 minutes) just to do some level automation to reign a couple things that were really sticking out due to the chaotic nature of the original files (a bunch of disparate clips mashed together).
 
5 minute remix...
 
https://soundcloud.com/user432042324/beepster-metal-5min-remix
 
And this is the version some of you have probably already heard. Very cloudy and dull IMO but I didn't even know what a compressor was back then. lulz...
 
Original mix from 2013...
 
https://soundcloud.com/user432042324/beepster-metal-16-bit
 
This track is probably about as simple as it gets for my metal stuff.
 
BTW the drums are actually a stereo file outputted from BFD Eco because I didn't yet know how to use MIDI and I was just goofing around with BFD's internal beat writer thing which then turned into the foundation I wrote the song around. The solos are mostly improvised and the whole thing written/tracked in a couple days which is why I want to rerecord the guits to tighten up a bit. I'm probably going to test out Drum Replacer on the stereo drum file too to maybe get some more control over at least the kick and snare drums. That drum sound is just a BFD preset I thought sounded decent enough to play around with and the beats are all part of the BFD loop library.
 
No need to rip into this because as I said I'm redoing it completely. Just showing it as an example of my skills on a more basic level.
 
Oh and there is NO special EQing on any of the tracks. Just a very slight little bit on the busses. It's mostly volume/pan stuff with a bit of compression on a few things (and of course guitar sims).
 
Cheers and thanks again guys. I'll be back.
2015/09/25 12:40:31
Lord Tim
bitflipper
Hey Tim, been giving your stuff a listen. Outstanding quality and creativity.
 
But with all that good music, why do you guys look so glum?




5 minutes before that promo pic was taken, someone spilled our chocolate milk. It was a difficult time for us all...  We will rebuild!
2015/09/25 12:53:37
Beepster
Lord Tim
bitflipper
Hey Tim, been giving your stuff a listen. Outstanding quality and creativity.
 
But with all that good music, why do you guys look so glum?




5 minutes before that promo pic was taken, someone spilled our chocolate milk. It was a difficult time for us all...  We will rebuild!



I'd just remind myself I'm holding some sweet arse metal guit technology and cheer right up.
 
I seriously forget sometimes how totally genre inappropriate my main axe is. It's a Pacifica "hotstrat" modded for blues/rock. Love the bugger and it does well outside of its intended purpose but I really need a proper metal guitar.
 
Gonna try to bring my ancient Ibanez Roadstar back from the dead with some PUPs a friend donated to me some years back. Still won't be nearly as slick as those axes look.
 
;-)
2015/09/25 18:45:35
Lord Tim
Definitely stoked with the guitars! That was more or less the first promo shot with our new signature models and behind the scenes we were jumping up and down like excited kids! HAHA!

I gotta say though that I don't think there's any right or wrong when it comes to which guitar you use on a recording, so long as it works in context of the song. A good example is I have an old Aria Pro that I found in a pawn store for like $80. Looked kinda cool and at the time I needed a spare guitar for a live show we were doing. I threw a Duncan Distortion into it and it didn't sound half bad.

That particular guitar, which is just laying around the studio here, has managed to make it onto nearly 10 international releases. Most of my guitars are tuned specifically and have floating bridges so retuning them for a quick bit of session work wasn't worth the effort, so if I had to play on something other than what my guitars were tuned to, it ended up being "hey, why don't we use that beat up looking one in the corner?"

Definitely not a patch on a custom made top of the line ESP but in context on the albums, you'd never know. People always freak out when I tell them it was a banged up $80 guitar!

But that story really relates back to what we're doing here too. You can get all the high end boutique plugins you like, but in context you may find one of the Sonitus plugins bundled with SONAR will do the job perfectly fine, and no one will have any idea. Will an expensive vintage modelled plugin sound different? Sure, it may give you a little character that the Sonitus doesn't have, but at the core of it, you'll get 99% there without the extra gear and price tag if you know what you're doing. :)
2015/09/25 21:57:29
Jeff M.
Lord Tim
bitflipper
Hey Tim, been giving your stuff a listen. Outstanding quality and creativity.
 But with all that good music, why do you guys look so glum?

5 minutes before that promo pic was taken, someone spilled our chocolate milk. It was a difficult time for us all...  We will rebuild!

I've also recently checked out Tim's stuff and I concur with Bit - it IS very good stuff!
The choco milk explanation (though obviously false) makes the promo pic all the more awesome! 
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