I'm just asking to find out what methods people use to organise their stuff.
In my FL version, no single track could be more than 16 bars long, so I might have say 9 drum tracks, each 4 bars, each with variations. There might also be 12 piano tracks and in the sequencer, I'd line these up vertically and horizontally to have the right drum pattern trigger at the same time as the appropriate piano part. It won't let me attach a screenshot from my computer, so I hope you understand what I mean.
 
In Sonar, the track length seems unlimited. I can put all the drum parts on one track which saves a lot of screen space vertically, but is this a good idea?
Is it better to use smaller parts and still have the matter of arranging their individual timings?
Because of Sonar's different structure, that would require more instances of synthesizers I think.
So, what techniques/strategies to experienced users utilise to bring a project together?
 
Just so we're all clear on this, I'm not asking for a solution to a problem, I'm asking for your opinions and best practice suggestions, thank you.

you want separate control of anything you want to change individually
 
so if one element needs to get louder, while another gets softer, or pans somewhere else,
or needs to be bussed to a separate location than the other, etc etc etc
 
in other words, take as many tracks as you need to mix what you got

Sounds like you were using some SEVERELY crippled demo version of FL studio.
 
Now that you own Sonar just go apeballs however you want but yes... a track is of unlimited length. Use ONE track per instrument and record/program whatver you want into it.
 
Within the track are "Take Lanes". Each take lane can hold a different performance/recording and will play through the same track. These lanes are comprised of MIDI or Audio clips. You generally only want one lane playing within a track at one time (but with a slight overlap of clips in the lanes with crossfades so the various "Takes" blend nicely together).
 
So... if you record five takes into the same track they will show up in the take lanes as their own distinct "Lane". From there you can slice and dice/mix and match these performances by using the "Comping" feature or other editing methods inside the same track.
 
If you are not aware of how to use or access these features just search in the manual for "Take Lanes", "Comping", "Comp Mode", "Smart Tool" and so on. There will be other links/references for each entry that can lead you to other info on this process.
 
To totally answer your question... I (and pretty much everyone) just record into a track as many times as I want/need to and all those recordings show up as distinct lanes. Once I feel I have recorded enough good/useable takes I start to "Edit" using "Comp Mode". Basically that is the process of going through all the takes I just recorded, finding the best parts of each take then using the "Comp Tool" to "Promote" those parts so they are audible (and everything else that occurs at that point on the other takes becomes muted).
 
By doing this I create the best track I can out of all the recordings I made.
 
You do NOT want to stack your tracks like you described for FL. THat is a ridiculous and crummy workflow which you obviously only had to do because of some weird limitation.
 
There are videos on this site under the CakeTV/Cake University section that show how to do this. I recommend watching pretty much all those vids as well as checking out the manual.
 
 
However now that I think of it what you MAY be referring to is the Step Sequencer in FL Studio. That is a completely different subject. Those aren't "tracks". Those lines output to tracks. The Step Sequencer in Sonar will generate "Step Sequencer" clips in the "Track View" that you can then edit, drag out and generally manipulate however you want. You can also convert them into proper MIDI clips that can be edited more precisely in the "Piano Roll View".
 
These are all topics you should be looking into. I'm just throwing words, names, topics and ideas at you to search. If you are totally stuck in only using the Step Sequencer you are seriously limited within the program.
 
Yes you can extend the Step Sequence pattern out REALLY far in Sonar but that is not how you want to program MIDI.
 
Damn... it's really hard to explain in a single post because there are dozens of interrelated topics that need to be understood.
 
Go through the tutorials at the start of the manual, watch the vids on CakeTV and come back. Those explain a LOT.

batsbrew
you want separate control of anything you want to change individually
 
so if one element needs to get louder, while another gets softer, or pans somewhere else,
or needs to be bussed to a separate location than the other, etc etc etc
 
in other words, take as many tracks as you need to mix what you got

I think this guy's stuck in the Step Sequencer and doesn't know about Track View stuff. Understandable coming from FL because it basically jams the SS down your throat. I got stuck in that trap with FL back in the day when I had no idea WTF to do with it... of course because I was used to actually recording outboard audio... not dealing with MIDI.
 

I have an old, but fully enabled version of FL and yes, the step sequencer was my baby.
Very easy to see and arrange all the variations in my patterns with multiple patterns for a single instrument instance.
The problem I have with one long track in Sonar is, say, having to write down notes about where the verse ends, the chorus starts etc, because it's all one big long row of dots (midi data) and I need to coordinate where the drums change etc.
FL was far more visual.
I have been through quite a lot of stuff on Youtube and Cake tv, but I haven't seen this sort of info discuseed, so I thought I'd ask you all.
Bye the way, I only use virtual instruments, so the comping feature is completely irrelevant to me.
So far in Sonar, I've got one acoustic guitar track with one drum track.
They're quite well mixed, but following the changes between sections is troublesome, hence my query.

Look up "Timeline Markers". You can add markers on the main timeline to indicate where changes occur. There is also a "Markers View" to add, remove, edit them in a more concise way. These only act as indicators though. They don't really do anything other than that (and being able to quickly navigate/snap to them using other features).
 
You shoudl really take a look at the Piano Roll View, how to convert Step Sequencer clips back and forth between the Piano Roll view, MIDI Groove Clips (and Groove Clips/Looping in general)...
 
Also maybe take a look at the "Matrix View" which is an alternative pad based workflow you may find interesting/useful.
 
PS: I comp MIDI all the time... but that's usually from live input from a controller.

Also... if you want to add a screenshot to a post in the forum so we can see what you mean you should be able to now that you have over 25 posts (this forum does not allow links until you hit 25).
 
You just need to take the screenshot, upload the image to something like Photobucket or Imageshack, click the "Insert Image" button on the comment box (it's at the very bottom right of all the comment tools) then insert the image URL into the popup dialog.
 
This does all seem to be more Sonar forum stuff though. The "Techniques" sub forum is usually more about general production techniques as opposed to using Sonar specifically. The Sonar forum also has a lot more people reading/commenting in it so you'll get more eyeballs and suggestions there.
 
If you need general audio advice though the Techniques tab rocks. I read it "and the Sonar forum" every day.

Thanks Beep, I put this here because I wanted to find out peoples techniques for organising workflow.
The other forum to me is more problem solving.
 
I have already tried markers, pretty useless for me.
It seems to be a matter of zooming in on my piano roll midi data and then writing stuff down on paper.
Rather retrograde compared to FL, but I am a new Sonar user, although so far, I'm not very impressed.
I decided not to use the step sequencer because it has no drum names, just notes.
The piano roll gives some names although it's not 100% accurate.
Still, maybe I'll eventually get into this... :0)

Although I don't use SS IIRC you can rename the lanes and route/arrange them however you like. It just takes a bit of studying/fiddling which I personally haven't done yet. I do have various tutorials on video that show this type of thing (the CakeTV ones don't go as in depth).
 
If you have a few bucks and it's on sale I would HIGHLY recommend picking up the SWA Sonar X2/X3 Complete video series available in the Cake Store. It's a little pricey when it's not on sale but can be had for cheap occasionally. Even at full price it's still the best and most thorough compilation of tuts I've come across and explains things like this in great detail.
 
Even though it's X2/X3 based most of the stuff is still completely current and most definitely the things you are inquiring about are covered. Totally worth it and I reference it regularly.
 
You seem like a smart fellow so I think something like that will help you sort it out without mucking around the manual too much (which is a PITA... I'll admit).
 
As far as getting a workflow together based on your OP... it's a little difficult because it's hard to really know what you're trying to do exactly. My impression is that if you had a handle on some of the Sonar basics (and a little bit beyond the basics) you'd be able to find your groove. I understand want your end goal is but I'm just not seeing how you are currently trying to approach it or how you did it before.
 
Using Sonar effectively unfortunately requires a brief but steep learning curve to really get on top of things which is why I'm recommending those vids and tossing any questions in the main Sonar forum. These are procedural/program related questions and they totally will get the attention they need in the Sonar forum. It is of course there to solve problems as well but when one needs to know how to do something within the program or just see how others do stuff that sub really is your best bet. I post there all the time for similar advice and have learned a ton by doing so.
 
As I said this area is mostly general audio stuff not really related to Sonar itself. Like mixing or outboard stuff or whatever. Managing clips, MIDI, SS, tracks, etc within Sonar is totally the type of thing you'll get mounds of help on in the Sonar forum.
 
Cheers and I'm glad you decided to stick it out. You won't be disappointed.
 

BTW... one of the best favors I did for myself when learning the program was simply learning all the terminology used for each area, tool, view, doodad, procedure, etc used in Sonar. There are some specific (and sometimes confusing) names for a lot of stuff so just knowing what to call things and how to ask the other forumites questions made things a million times easier.
 
Just silly things like knowing the difference between the Clips Pane and the Track Pane and that they live in the Track View... crap like that. It just helps people know WTF is up with a few words and you don't have to worry about uploading pictures or trying to explain things in elaborate ways.
 
Trust me... I've been through it and it sucks trying to convey a message about complicated crap when I can't speak the language.
 
Best of luck to ya. Good bunch around here always willing to help.