Hi all,
 
I have been working with Danny on mastering a song of mine and we got to talking tape emulators. I had Slate VTM on all tracks as well as Slate VCC. I liked the high end roll-off I got. However, Danny suggested I try removing them and see what I thought. While things got a lot brighter (which I can adjust with EQ), I have to say the entire mix just opened up - I didn't realize how much the saturation effect was narrowing the stereo field and in general stifling the mix.
 
What are your thoughts? It seems these plugins have become ubiquitous - do you use them all the time? do you use them only occasionally? Have you ever pulled them off a mix like this to hear the difference?

i never use tape emulators,
or 'saturators' or any of that.
 
if i need high end roll off,
i use a good linear phase EQ.
 
if i need something distorted,
i try to record it that way,
or use a VST to simply add distortion to the one track i need.
 
otherwise,
i see these types of plugins as a way to go backwards, to the shortcomings of recording with tape.
 
that is a specific sound.... that a lot of times, was simply a happy accident.
 
the tools now, are much more fine tuned,
and therefore you should be able to dial in the sound you want WITHOUT emulators.
 
unless you just like that old tape sound.
 
heheh

You know I'm no pro (but it still needs mentioning) and I only have the Tape Sims provided with Cakewalk Sonar (the new PC one and the old plugin one).
 
I have played with the PC version quite a bit and really... I'd only use it on a sub mix bus (like drums or bass or whatever... or maybe on the master if I was going for an overall "vintage" feel). I thought that's how those things were supposed to be used. Like pretending you were sending your whole mix out to a two inch tape machine and applying a bit of saturation.
 
IME so far they actually yank a lot of useful stuff out. There is a bit of gelling and punch that gets introduced (which is why it's cool on some busses or full mixes) but I don't think it would be particularly useful on every track. At first when they first gave us the PC Tape Sim I thought it was great because it made a lot of my stuff sound better but now that I'm really weaselling my way into the various elements of my own mixes (thanks to the advice of guys like Danny and others) it honestly doesn't add shiz... only takes away. Makes it more lo fi or something and less manageable. I still use it but very cautiously and lightly.
 
Basically if I turn it on/off of whatever bus I've have it on and if things sound better/worse I make my judgement from there. I never mix into it. It's almost like if I need to get something sparser and out of the way of other stuff it's an option. Careful compression and actual saturation tools seem to really be where it's at though.
 
I think on every track it would just turn into some kind of Tom Waits nightmare... which is cool if that's what you want (and I love those records) but it isn't great for everything fer sure.
 
Then again it might be perfectly suited for your material. Still probably better at bus level though.
 
Seriously... I know nuthink and should not be listened to... like AT ALL! Danny's the man and likely said that for a reason.

I'm with Beeps on this. So I guess that makes me with Danny too.
 
Maybe on a drum or bass buss.
 
Or not on anything but the final buss.
 
If and only if I was going for that "vintage" sound.
 
 
IOW, I've rarely used TapeEms.

Thanks for the responses guys - good stuff! I was amazed at how much was hiding in my mix by using these things, and I'm really glad I was encouraged to turn them off and see what would happen. We see a lot of hype over these plugins, but not always a lot of discussion on their practical use. Thanks for chiming in. :)

I have the Nomad tape sim (Magnetic II) and it's excellent. Very easy to overuse because it does tend to add a certain something to tracks listened to in isolation, but of course as we all know listening to tracks in isolation does not a good mix make. So I try to restrict it to just tracks that sound too dry or sterile, or anything that sounds too harsh or brittle. Used sparingly it's great for that. I love it on Moog-style bass parts (e.g. Monark) that sound way too dry on their own. Also great for a bit of gentle compression and grit on drum buses. But contrast is the key. If everything sounds warm and gritty, nothing does. If everything sounds bright and airy, nothing does. Playing hi-fi sounds against lo-fi sounds creates a great balance and adds depth and interest to a mix.

I sometimes add them. For dead cover bands that want to sound like so many boots they've enjoyed over the years, it works ok.

Usually just the drum bus.

Also, remember automation. You can add a nice tape hiss on the count off and slowly roll it out. Just because you want it notable at the start and end doesn't mean you need it in the middle.

Never.
 
I didn't like what real tape did to my recordings, either. Digital recording was (literally) a revelation. It required a little more work to blend everything nicely, but that was a small price to pay for crisp high end, snappy percussion, complete track separation, precise tone control, punchy bass and pin-drop silence in the quiet parts.
 
At one point I succumbed to popular online GroupThink and bought what was widely regarded as one of the best tape sims, on the assumption that I must have been missing out on something. I attempted to use it on anything and everything, but every time the mix sounded better without it. It's still there on disk, just in case I ever figure out what I was doing wrong with it.

Sounds like that mimics my experience bit - when I pulled them off I wondered why I was using them in the first place!

See James, you're not alone. I share every word bit says...as I too welcomed digital with open arms. I just think it offers so much more and you can get close enough to an analog sound if you need to. As for tape sims....the only one I'd even consider using would be the UAD Studer. I've said it a million times.....I really believe UAD has it down as far as anything that simulates driven components like saturation, tape drive and even the compression you got from it.
 
I've not felt the same with anything else I've tried. The saturation I hear in other plugs is digital distortion that isn't even usable or musical. Anyone that has REALLY used tape knows that these plugs claiming to do it fall way short. It's almost like the guys that code this stuff are looking at sheets of stat info only and haven't experienced what it's like to use Ampex 456 at 15 or 30 ips running hot. It doesn't sound like what I've been hearing other than the UAD stuff.
 
Whatever the case, remember we talked about remedies for things before we use a plugin? This is another one of those situations where you can warm things up just right without using one of these things. In that area, I'm with bats.....I drive what I need to drive the right way as I record using something that was made to distort the right way. If I need to use a tube pre, so be it....at least it will do what I want it to do without giving me digital distortion that just sounds bad.
 
That said, you WILL find little gizmos here and there that just do "something" to your mix. There are a few hardware pieces that can do this if you run out of your pc into them. Though I don't use them anymore, a few made a difference. And that's just it....they made things sound "different" not necessarily "better". I don't think you need these tape things unless you are really shooting for an analog sound for something specific. If you insist, the only one to use is the Studer and then master through the UAD Ampex machine. You'll be close enough to analog without destructively having it. :)
 
As for the Slate stuff.....I've paid for the pieces I have so I have the right to say they are terrible. LOL! :) Never thought his drum samples were good enough let alone his processing plugs. His video's are entertaining though...and he can sing pretty well. :)
 
Anyway, remember....find the cause and come up with a remedy that doesn't entail a band-aide. It's sort of like side chaining.....there are uses for it, but you always lose something. A lot of new guys use this because they simply can't make a kick and bass work at the same time. So they think they fixed the problem with side-chaining when all they did was trade off and cover something up while something else plays. What did they learn? Nothing. It's best to learn how to fix frequency masking before we start throwing side chaining around, ya know? Sort of like throwing on a plug because it seems to "fix something" or make something more appealing to you.
 
Granted, we can get away with that for certain things. But it's always best when we know what it is fixing and how as well as how we can get the same sound without using devices that degrade our audio. That said, there are times when you may want that. I'm not trying to sway you or anyone else from using this stuff....but as you can see, there are a few respected members that feel the same way. Not that any of us hold any additional weight even in numbers....but as you heard yourself, mixes seem way better without these things.
 
It reminds me of the BBE days. The BBE came out to be the competition for the Aphex Aural Exciter. Then one day, some dude ran one through his guitar rig....and they couldn't keep these things in stock. Everyone I knew bought one including me. I thought it was making me sound better....but yet I always messed with my tone on a daily basis. One day, mine died....at least I thought it did but I came to find out it didn't....and I took it out of my signal chain and BAM.....I loved my sound again! Now some guys really made it work well....and it did a fair job for me too, but I sounded way better without it. It depends on what amp you use as well as what your core tone had in it before you used it, know what I mean? Anyone with excessive mids usually had success with it.
 
This is a lot like that. You use something and think you like it...until you shut it down and listen to your core tone. My buddy did that recently with the UAD Ocean Way plug. Yeah, it sounds great....but use it too much and well, your drums will suffer. When he turned it off, his drums sounded good again. We buy into so much hype brother....we miss the obvious....myself included as I've been there and still fall for it from time to time. :) The more I learn....the less I use.
 
-Danny