I can see posts now but that was strange.
 
Thank you for your replies. Not sure how to clear cookies- I use Edge.
 
Sandexpander, you are soooo right- yes, I just need everything connected, otherwise I don't use it. Software synths are so easy to use and right there at a click of the button- I am getting too lazy to get up and turn on hardware and wonder what MIDI port it is on and what audio In/Out it needs and why I have no sound and so on.
 
So I already have M-Audio Ultra 8R USB2 interface, it works good. I wanted to improve my sound. Also what role audio interface play when using software synths? I rarely record my hardware now days- mostly Vocals (for each song) and guitars, and then software synths and Kontakt instruments. So if I have software synth, does it gets processed by AD/DA converters? I am hearing it, so it has to, right? Latency for me would be the main priority. While Presonus worked ok with latency, when I was using forward looking effects such as Izotope Nectar, the latency would suddenly go up to like 3 seconds- literally- not milliseconds. I would press a key and wait for the sound.
 
So as of today, I would like to get Thunderbolt interface (waiting for the card become available), MOTU or Universal Audio or RME?

Hi vladasyn,

The Presonus SL 32 has 16 mic ins and 16 combo mic/line, so I don't think it give you the I/O you need. Your idea of using your Presous 24 channel board as a patch bay would probably work, but my suggestion would be to call a place like Sweetwater and talk to one of their sales techs and explain your setup/difficulties and what you are trying to set up. A few minutes spent talking with them may end up saving a bunch of money and not have you go down the "gear rat hole."  

AVB stands for Audio Video Bridging and at a simple level it is a protocol developed by the IEEE enables audio and video signals to be transmitted over a dedicated section of Ethernet bandwidth. Maybe that didn't sound simple - sorry. By the way, if you wanted to go the AVB route with the Presonus board, the only AVB switch they are presently supporting is a the $400 Motu AVB switch (which add more to your costs).

For me, I purchased the SL32 because I mostly use Studio One for recording and it and is designed for that DAW (and the track count works for me). I also still have my old setup which consists of a Focusrite Liquid 56 and two Berhinger ADA8200 connected via ADAT which gives me up to 24 mic or line inputs. This might be a solution for you and it looks like one of the Motu units have ADAT I/O so it should allow you to expand the I/O (similar to my Focusrite).

Hope that helps, but seriously, I would talk to an expert to get the best advice for your needs.

Take care,

h

vladasyn
when I was using forward looking effects such as Izotope Nectar, the latency would suddenly go up to like 3 seconds- literally- not milliseconds. I would press a key and wait for the sound.

I don't know if you tried this but Nectar has a Mixing/Tracking Mode switch that might help with that.

A couple of points:
- The audio interface has no effect at all on the internal sound processing Sonar or any of your softsynths do. The only place where sound quality of softsynths comes into play is the DA conversion. It is doubtful you'd be able to hear the difference between the various mentioned medium and upmarket devices, although really cheap devices can sound flat and lifeless.
- Latency is where the audio interface and its drivers come into play. While Thunderbolt can in theory do better than USB, really the drivers make a huge difference. E.g. my RME UCX gets 2.9ms roundtrip at the lowest buffer setting and even their own new Thunderbolt enabled interface the UFX+ shows that USB is no slower than Thunderbolt. It's the track count that's the bottleneck. If you don't record a huge amount of tracks at the same time there really is no reason to go for Thunderbolt specifically.

- Latency will always be affected by certain plugins, independent of which audio interface you use. E.g. limiters with a look ahead function, pitch correction plugins, convolution reverbs and linear phase EQs all induce significant amount of latency simply because of the way they work, you can't really change that. When such a plugin is inserted on one track, Sonar will delay all the other tracks by the same amount in order to line up everything correctly on playback. During recording, you can get around this by hitting the PDC (Plugin Delay Compensation) button, which disables this artificial delay for the track you're actively monitoring. This only works if you don't have any of those delay-inducing plugins on the signal chain of that track, of course. Again, this has nothing to do with the quality of the interface, it is necessitated by the process.
EDIT: good point about Nectar having a tracking/mixing switch. Some plugins do. Linear phase EQs usually have a non linear mode too, and Waves makes a "live" version of their convolution reverb IR1 if you want to use it during tracking. /EDIT

I would also concur with hbarton that it would be a good idea to talk with a store representative to see if you can get an easier way to hook up a bunch of synths without needing a million inputs on your interface. You can only spend your money once and it seems like a waste. Traditionally, what you're describing is solved by having a patch bay - as an example, you would have all of your synths plugged into the backside of a patchbay, say on the top row. Then you hook up your interface inputs to the backside of the patchbay as well, but on the bottom row. Now you can use short patch cables to quickly patch any synth to any input on your interface, all from your comfortable desk chair.

Wow- that is a lot of information. Thank you. I did see the mixing/Tracking mode but never used it. I will try using it because after I insert Nectar, I can not use any synths at all.
 
Where is PDC (Plugin Delay Compensation) button- in Sonar?
 
I was told about the Patch Bay in the past- I felt like it would be extra unit between the synth and computer and I wanted it to go right in to the input of audio interface without any middle gear. But I got my Presonus in 2013 and hardly used any of my synths (I have some cool stuff like Yamaha Motif- that's the one I use regularly, Korg M3, Access Virus, Novation, Roland Fanom, Roland V-Synth GT). I am in software and Kontakt synth phase.
 
So according to Sandexpander, I don't need any interface at all? I have Ultra 8R which works great via USB2. Actually- when Avid sold M-Audio- it is the only unit they kept and did not let M-Audio to take- looks like Avid had something to do with its development when they owned M-Audio. So this may explain why it sounds ok and works. Also M-Audio used to be pretty good- I used to have their Delta 1010. MOTU, to me, was the same level of quality. Ultra 8R sounds bright to me, compared to Presonus- like- wow- so much high end.
 
So you saying- just use Ultra and not spend $3000, or even $1500 for MOTU and $100 on Thunderbolt? That is no fun. my partner always critical of my set up because he is "Mac person" and he says- it is not professional to not have class A gear. So I wanted to step to the plate. May be buy Protools rig?

The PDC button is at the top in your control bar.

I guess your M-Audio would in theory be a step "below" some of the mentioned interfaces like RME and UAD, but if you think the sound quality is good and you get low enough latency (before using those plugins like we talked about) I don't think there's any reason to spend thousands of bucks on something else. Again, the interface quality has nothing to do with the quality of processing inside the box, though obviously everything that comes out of your speaker has gone through its DA conversion.

You say you already hardly use your hardware synths but if you want them hooked up for peace of mind a patchbay seems more than sufficient. It is indeed an "extra" bit of gear between the computer and the synths but it doesn't do any processing and with line level signals like from your synths it really won't have a significant impact on sound quality. Maybe not buy the very cheapest you can find, but that tends to go for everything.

Also, tell your partner to shut up. Whole albums have been made on laptop soundcards for crying out loud, especially when they're based on softsynths.

I don't know what kind of work you do mostly, you say you record vocals but not much else. If you really want to spend some money and upgrade, perhaps invest in a nice analog channel strip for your vocals. Or, if you get a stereo one, you can also use it for your synths. Or upgrade your monitoring, or treat your room, etc. etc.
In other words, if you're basically happy with the operation of your M-Audio and you don't even need the "best-you-can-buy" recording quality (because you don't record that much), there are a ton of things to spend money on that will do a lot more for improving your sound and your experience in the studio.

Thank you for your reply. I feel like I must fix the problem that was created by Presonus mixer not working with my new computer. Imaging- I have 24 channels, everything connected, every keyboard has stereo cables with numbers, all 24 channels are taken. Now all of it stops working. I am finishing mixing the album for release on my old computer and then will be switching to the new computer. I am upset that Presonus is not working. I need to connect my keyboards somewhere. Yes, I have M-Audio Ultra that sounds ok. But then- my studio is not in working condition. Imaging I have to unplug 24 channels that actually 10 fit cables that run behind the desk and all tangled between each other and about 10 USB cables, printers and 4 monitors. When I had to connect it, it took days to set up. But to disconnect it would be a nightmare because I have NO access to the back of my desk. The easiest was would be to find something that would allow me to unplug all cables from Presonus and connect to something else. I just wanted to see if my Yamaha Motif cable long enough to reach to M-Audio and I had to pull on it and it just stock somewhere behind the desk. Looks like it is long enough if I untangle it.
 
Before I had Presonus, I used Phonic Helix 18 board which also became obsolete with OS going from Vista to Win 7. (No drivers). I remember thinking the Phonix was sound ok too. But now I listen songs recorded with Phonic and I hear the difference. And I don't know what result I will get if I switch to M-Audio. It sounds ok now, but it may sound bad when I actually mix the album.
 
So I record metal guitars (with distortion) line (no mics involved), Vocals (female- me) and could use at least 5 pairs of synths. Other 7 pairs can stay in Presonus and run from Out of Presonus to In of soundcard. (Which I don't like). Ugh... Any combinations on your mind? Thank you.  

Well if you put a patchbay where the Presonus is now you can leave all those cables where they are. Put your soundcard on top of it and use patchcables to hook up whichever hardware synth you want to record to whichever input you want to use. If the inputs are on the back or hard to reach you can hook them up to the patchbay too and use a patchcable to connect a synth to an input.

If you're still worried about the soundquality and want something beyond doubt you could get perhaps a smaller RME interface like a Babyface or an UCX, but the principle with the patchbay remains the same.

I looked at Sweetwater and no Patch bays look exciting. All companies I don't know, except ART. Not sure ART makes Class A gear. I am looking at Switchcraft... https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/StuPatch6425
 
What is this input type I see on many audio interface- where are the TRS connect?
 
I am not exactly Behringer person. So there are not that many choices and they are not that much less expansive.

Behringer's PX3000 is a perfectly good TRS patchbay. All jack patchbars are is a bunch of TRS sockets in a rack case and the connections betwen them. You can spend a fortune on them, but there's little point. They really are very basic, simple things. Not much to go wrong really.

As for what plugs into what, you might find it more productive to download a few manuals for interfaces you're interested in than post questions here. The answers to many of your questions are in the manuals.

As for how you plug TRS leads into the mic pres on most interfaces, the XLR sockets on most interfaces usually have a TRS jack socket in the centre of the XLR one. They're combined sockets usable for both and the interface and its software sort out the signal flow. There may be interfaces that only have XLRs, bit you'd need to check their manuals for that information.