• SONAR
  • AI in DAW: Logic Pro's new update will detect and mark tempo (p.2)
2018/09/20 20:32:35
chuckebaby
 
vladasyn
I am wondering when Cakewalk with catch up with new technologies. There also apps that use artificial intelligence to fill song with drum tracks and even create melodies and chords. What can Cakewalk offer in the near future? 
 
https://www.theverge.com/2018/1/26/16936662/logic-pro-x-update-smart-tempo-chromaverb-namm
 
https://www.theverge.com/2018/8/31/17777008/artificial-intelligence-taryn-southern-amper-music
 
 




Logic is actually a couple years late. Cakewalk implemented this same exact feature 2 years ago.
 

2018/09/20 20:53:08
michael diemer
I just don't see the fun in having the software do everything. I prefer creating my own melodies, harmony etc. Guess I'm just old-fashioned...
2018/09/20 21:11:04
Brian Walton
michael diemer
I just don't see the fun in having the software do everything. I prefer creating my own melodies, harmony etc. Guess I'm just old-fashioned...


I think it is a balance.  Take something like JamStix.  That thing can create rhythms on drums and variations that "work" that would take me years to get to from where I am now.  I don't need a guitar program or a bass program.  Most people don't have every musical production skill.  I think it is interesting getting high quality AI to help fill some of those gaps.  
 
While I have numerous professional musicians around, it isn't always easy to get them to work on my schedule and your average person doesn't even have access to the resources I do.  
2018/09/20 21:32:42
msmcleod
Brian Walton
michael diemer
I just don't see the fun in having the software do everything. I prefer creating my own melodies, harmony etc. Guess I'm just old-fashioned...


I think it is a balance.  Take something like JamStix.  That thing can create rhythms on drums and variations that "work" that would take me years to get to from where I am now.  I don't need a guitar program or a bass program.  Most people don't have every musical production skill.  I think it is interesting getting high quality AI to help fill some of those gaps.  
 
While I have numerous professional musicians around, it isn't always easy to get them to work on my schedule and your average person doesn't even have access to the resources I do.  




The thing I like best about Jamstix is the MIDI import function. Basically you give it the drum beat you have in mind, and it paraphrases it in the style of the drummer you've chosen.
 
2018/09/20 22:28:20
bitman
Drummers don't have intelligence so it should be easy to do.
 
I'm one btw.
 
2018/09/20 23:03:25
BenMMusTech
We should not be using AI for creation...its a very slippery slop. Come on too...I mean writing drums isn't hard. Mostly, its 4 bars of time and then a bar of fill. I use notion 6 for all my initial midi writing, I then import either the audio or midi into Sonar for final processing. I can write drums really quickly now - a day. And it would be very hard to tell the difference between my drums and the real thing. My point being - instead of being lazy - learn some musical literacy. For one...its much more satisfying.

And plus 1 for innovations that Sonar had before any other DAW. None of you lot seem to still not understand the importance of 64bit FP audio files...something the Sonar did first. Most of the other DAWs seem to do Wav64 now, but whether this is true 64bitfp format...I can't quite tell.

Sonar has been a mature product since the end of splat...so much so, I have no plans to upgrade to whatever the product is now. My intention is to test another DAW and the 64bitwav format. I'm sceptical -because Sonar still has a couple of extra tricks up its sleeve that I believe still give it an edge over the rest...upsampling for instance. I think we need to stop worrying about silly and useless updates and learn the tools we have.
2018/09/20 23:19:54
Brian Walton
BenMMusTech
We should not be using AI for creation...its a very slippery slop. Come on too...I mean writing drums isn't hard. Mostly, its 4 bars of time and then a bar of fill. I use notion 6 for all my initial midi writing, I then import either the audio or midi into Sonar for final processing. I can write drums really quickly now - a day. And it would be very hard to tell the difference between my drums and the real thing. My point being - instead of being lazy - learn some musical literacy. For one...its much more satisfying.


I checked some of your music via the links in your signature and what I heard - I certainly didn't think "drummer" was involved. 
 
Not a criticism, but I'd be surprised if you didn't agree that you are not creating parts in traditional, rock, jazz, soul, blues, funk, etc. sense.  
 
I've heard JamStix come up with rhythms I've found to be quite interesting.  
 
As producers of recorded music, WE have to option to select what fits in our compositions.  Does it really matter if a particular part was created by a computer or a human?  As long as it is the human making the creative decision to include or exclude the part....I see no problem with it.  
2018/09/20 23:41:06
Rbh
I'm always amused by the term Artificial Intelligence. Why not hold out, learn a little something and go for the real thing?
2018/09/21 01:59:25
michael diemer
Brian Walton
Does it really matter if a particular part was created by a computer or a human?  As long as it is the human making the creative decision to include or exclude the part....I see no problem with it.  


 Talk about a slippery slope! I can't believe people are actually making statements like this. Of course it matters if a human being, rather than a computer, created the part. Of course there is more creativity in music that was created 100% by an actual human being. Which is not to say that there is not a place for AI in music creation, just that there is a difference. If we lose that distinction, God help us. 
2018/09/21 08:14:32
BenMMusTech
Brian Walton
BenMMusTech
We should not be using AI for creation...its a very slippery slop. Come on too...I mean writing drums isn't hard. Mostly, its 4 bars of time and then a bar of fill. I use notion 6 for all my initial midi writing, I then import either the audio or midi into Sonar for final processing. I can write drums really quickly now - a day. And it would be very hard to tell the difference between my drums and the real thing. My point being - instead of being lazy - learn some musical literacy. For one...its much more satisfying.


I checked some of your music via the links in your signature and what I heard - I certainly didn't think "drummer" was involved. 
 
Not a criticism, but I'd be surprised if you didn't agree that you are not creating parts in traditional, rock, jazz, soul, blues, funk, etc. sense.  
 
I've heard JamStix come up with rhythms I've found to be quite interesting.  
 
As producers of recorded music, WE have to option to select what fits in our compositions.  Does it really matter if a particular part was created by a computer or a human?  As long as it is the human making the creative decision to include or exclude the part....I see no problem with it.  


The problem with me is I leave all my experiments up, which means people can say...but I heard your work at such and such. Listen to Sonata No.4 Don't Make Me Angry, You Wouldn't Like Me When I'm Angry! by A Techno-Romantic #np on #SoundCloud
https://soundcloud.com/aa...-like-me-when-im-angry this is my latest work. I literally wrote around the acoustic guitar that anchors the piece. What this does is create a believable push and pull effect...much like what you'd expect a rhythm section to sound and feel like. There is some straight sections, but mostly, the hats for example are either slightly in front of the beat, I think in the funk section and the king crimson section and in the ohh section slightly behind. Push and pull.

I'm an experimenter again, and I suspect you listened to some early experiments, where I was still working out all the ideas contained in the link.

PS if you listen to that link, you will find that there are funk drums, jazz drums and plain rock drums...in the one piece. Yes, I do know how to write various styles of drums you see. 16th high hats with emphasis, if I remember correctly on the 1 and the 3 for funk. 12/8 you could use a triplet ride for a big swirling wash. 4/4 plain 8ths on the hi hat with kick on 1 and 3, snare on 2 and 4. You could also add in a smaller double kick just before the 3rd beat...very a typical in rock. I can also write fairly off kilter stuff, oh the link piece also contains a 7/8 section which is where the hulk out happens...bulk out for copyright purposes. There is a rather tricky feel in that section, and when you add in the timpini and all the various percussion...it ads up to some very cool synchronicity within and without the various beats. AI and most drummers (rock and popular) would struggle to replicate the drums in that piece. Sorry for the confusion - but I'm a mad scientist when it comes to music. In fact there are 4 kicks used, only once mind you, in the above track link. Mostly its 2 and in a couple 3. Snares as well. If you think that the drums sound mechanized in the above link...I would say check your hearing, because I purposely when it was required put certain beats in between notes...because you had to, to make the other instruments follow the acoustic guitar. That's not to say, the guitar is out of time and nor the other instruments...but when you've got roughly 50 tracks playing at once, the only way for the instruments to come through is to create space by placing said beats in between notes fractionally.
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