Artificial intelligence to fill song with drum tracks and even create melodies and chords

Why not let it do the complete track while we are at it?
The the producer has to do nothing at all except for clicking start.

abacab
When I watched a demo of EZDrummer 2, it seemed capable of a lot of that with "Tap 2 Find". 

The much cooler thing is that you can use an electronic drumset with it to get something way more original than by using prerecorded beats and fills.
Superior Drummer 3 even adds a bit more for multizone triggers etc .

JoeBaermann

Artificial intelligence to fill song with drum tracks and even create melodies and chords

Why not let it do the complete track while we are at it?
The the producer has to do nothing at all except for clicking start.

And this is the scary thing, they already have done this. A bunch of production nerds and AI scientists - I think off the top of my head - fed into a computer with advanced AI all The Beatles music and the computer was given the task of writing a new Beatles tune...it was awful. Bloody awful. Music has become like the scene from Clockwork Orange where young Malcom McDowell picks up the young devotchkas whilst sucking on their nice and cool icy pole...what are you listening to? He says and out comes some generic gibberish. This is why I made the comment I did, let's not impede the use of technology, in that its impossible to write good drums...it sounds too mechanical etc, because it is possible - all you need to know is proper music literacy and theory, and the software can do it...not Sonar because its midi functionally is like every other DAWs - designed for hicks. And yes, I'm using purposefully offensive language to make a point. You can add some subtle coloration and nuances to midi using the limited midi functionality of a DAW, and you can use midi plugins to randomize midi...but you can paint in feel and time, which can be combined with advanced digital production theory to replicate any drum sound and feel. Even better is if you have a drum score and you punch that in along with the humanize function. AI could do this, but it's the mistakes that it can't replicate...these are one of the keys in real drumming.

Lesson over

michael diemer

Brian Walton
Does it really matter if a particular part was created by a computer or a human?  As long as it is the human making the creative decision to include or exclude the part....I see no problem with it.  

Talk about a slippery slope! I can't believe people are actually making statements like this. Of course it matters if a human being, rather than a computer, created the part. Of course there is more creativity in music that was created 100% by an actual human being. Which is not to say that there is not a place for AI in music creation, just that there is a difference. If we lose that distinction, God help us. 

Don't get me wrong.  My primary interest is creating organic music.  The majority of what I'm involved in is recording live bands in a studio environment and we even film the whole thing.  No overdubs, etc.  The mixes are done very quickly and posted more RAW than many musicians would even be comfortable with.  The musicians range for top level professional all the way down to people who picked up an instrument a year ago....and many times combining these individuals.  
 
https://www.youtube.com/theguitarroom
 
However, when it comes to music production.  I see nothing wrong with adding elements of computers.  I'm going to use JamStix again as an example.  A human created the program.  As much as we call this AI, it still has a human mind behind what it is creating.  Then there is the human selecting whether or not what is being created "fits or works."  
 
I have access to a number of very talented musicians (not going to name drop, but unless you live under a rock, you have heard of some of the people I work with or artists they work for/with).  The fact is, the majority of musicians do not have access to pro caliber creative musicians for every piece they want (or can't afford such services for home productions).  
 
Let's say you use a mediocre or even terrible drummer for a project you are working on.  You either decide to keep, toss, or fix that track as a music producer.  It is choice you as a human make.  This isn't much different than letting a computer program come up with a drum part and then you decide if it works or not or you fix it to work.   
 
With my Jamstix example again, it comes up with some complete garbage on its own sometimes, with some manipulation and experimentation I've seen it come up with things no mediocre or entry level drummer could even fathom playing as well, and I'd pick that over a 1st year drummer all day long.  

BenMMusTech

Brian Walton

BenMMusTech
We should not be using AI for creation...its a very slippery slop. Come on too...I mean writing drums isn't hard. Mostly, its 4 bars of time and then a bar of fill. I use notion 6 for all my initial midi writing, I then import either the audio or midi into Sonar for final processing. I can write drums really quickly now - a day. And it would be very hard to tell the difference between my drums and the real thing. My point being - instead of being lazy - learn some musical literacy. For one...its much more satisfying.

I checked some of your music via the links in your signature and what I heard - I certainly didn't think "drummer" was involved. 
 
Not a criticism, but I'd be surprised if you didn't agree that you are not creating parts in traditional, rock, jazz, soul, blues, funk, etc. sense.  
 
I've heard JamStix come up with rhythms I've found to be quite interesting.  
 
As producers of recorded music, WE have to option to select what fits in our compositions.  Does it really matter if a particular part was created by a computer or a human?  As long as it is the human making the creative decision to include or exclude the part....I see no problem with it.  

The problem with me is I leave all my experiments up, which means people can say...but I heard your work at such and such. Listen to Sonata No.4 Don't Make Me Angry, You Wouldn't Like Me When I'm Angry! by A Techno-Romantic #np on #SoundCloud
https://soundcloud.com/aa...-like-me-when-im-angry this is my latest work. I literally wrote around the acoustic guitar that anchors the piece. What this does is create a believable push and pull effect...much like what you'd expect a rhythm section to sound and feel like. There is some straight sections, but mostly, the hats for example are either slightly in front of the beat, I think in the funk section and the king crimson section and in the ohh section slightly behind. Push and pull.

I'm an experimenter again, and I suspect you listened to some early experiments, where I was still working out all the ideas contained in the link.

PS if you listen to that link, you will find that there are funk drums, jazz drums and plain rock drums...in the one piece. Yes, I do know how to write various styles of drums you see. 16th high hats with emphasis, if I remember correctly on the 1 and the 3 for funk. 12/8 you could use a triplet ride for a big swirling wash. 4/4 plain 8ths on the hi hat with kick on 1 and 3, snare on 2 and 4. You could also add in a smaller double kick just before the 3rd beat...very a typical in rock. I can also write fairly off kilter stuff, oh the link piece also contains a 7/8 section which is where the hulk out happens...bulk out for copyright purposes. There is a rather tricky feel in that section, and when you add in the timpini and all the various percussion...it ads up to some very cool synchronicity within and without the various beats. AI and most drummers (rock and popular) would struggle to replicate the drums in that piece. Sorry for the confusion - but I'm a mad scientist when it comes to music. In fact there are 4 kicks used, only once mind you, in the above track link. Mostly its 2 and in a couple 3. Snares as well. If you think that the drums sound mechanized in the above link...I would say check your hearing, because I purposely when it was required put certain beats in between notes...because you had to, to make the other instruments follow the acoustic guitar. That's not to say, the guitar is out of time and nor the other instruments...but when you've got roughly 50 tracks playing at once, the only way for the instruments to come through is to create space by placing said beats in between notes fractionally.

It isn't that I thought your work sounded mechanical, it sounds composed and scored.  Drummers I know that are in those genres don't write music drum parts like an orchestra.  Thus why I conclude I don't think "drummer" when I heard your work.  And even the way you describe your work, clearly that came across in what I heard.  
 
Again, it isn't a criticism it is a different approach.  I also note that you seem to keep the percussion itself lower in the track and seem to want to feature the rest above the drum work....just an observation.  

"There also apps that use artificial intelligence to fill song with drum tracks and even create melodies and chords."
 
Yea, sounds like fun. I can't wait for an update that makes us totally redundant and require no input at all. Every DAW out there today is more than capable of producing amazing music, all that is required is talent, creativity and patience. 
 
I think your point was not exactly the way that sentance made it sound though, I think?:)  You have to agree if the rythm, melody and harmony is created by a computer, all that you/we do is put a title on it. Unless in the next update that too is being handled by the DAW. Seem that is the way we are heading to be honest.
 
Not that I care much really. Enough good music to last me a lifetime in existence already. Might as well let the computers start pumping it out, its already generic enough to not make much of a difference. 

I see AI as different method to create music. For example, individual that plays piano, invests years of practicing to be able to perform piano music. Individual that programs computer to be able to produce music by using algorithms also creates music but uses different method. It takes as many years to learn coding as to play piano. In fact- AI is a product of collective mind, so as music. Music progressed and shaped over century with every new generation taking it step further. Computer science also a product of collective mind and was made by more than one generation. Robots and machines took over many functions that used to be performed by humans. It is kind of scary to realize that now days music production experience can be conserved and passed from generation to generation. 
 
Also if I hire a drummer, I may attempt to tell him what he needs to play but the actual implementation will depend on his creativity and ability, so the drum track will not be my creation. Therefor, the same can be applied to AI.
 
So what you trying to say is that for Cakewalk, there is no need to collaborate with coders and developers outside of their company and implement innovations in to their DAW because they are too far behind on creating their own AI and this is not what their goals are? They can always collaborate and hire other developers. Music production has to move forward. Saying, "We just basic DAW, if you want other tools- go with 3rd party" is not the way to move toward the future. 

The appeal of AI is tempting, but in practice it's really not that good yet.
 
As Ben says, there are exceptions, but none of the decent AI solutions are commercially available.
 
IMHO, being able to do everything at home by yourself in your DAW has had one huge downside - everyone now WANTS to do everything at home by themselves. In most cases, I feel the best music comes out of collaborating with other musicians. Even the most intellectually challenged writing partner can run rings around AI.
 
Finding the right person/people is the challenge I guess....

If you live in big city and have many choices of musicians, it would be great, but in small town some time you have only so many good musicians and they are busy. The "session guitarists" software is most welcome. By the way- thise Native Instruments 60s drummer, 70s drummer- are they mostly samples and MIDI patterns? No accompaniment ability? I have them but never got to use them. Thanks. 

Those programs can be played with a midi controller like real drums. I suspect they are most often used with the included midi loops or 3rd party ones. Drums might be unique in that they are easier to fool the GP. No tone changes are usually necessary unless they a tuned drums samples.
To use the midi patterns simply drag them into a track on CbB.