The great thing about melodyne is that it uses the same DLL regardless of what version it is, the activation code is solely what changes the version. More software should be like this. With Dim Pro and Rapture there are different builds which is not helpful when upgrading (LE and Pro).

64 bit VST's being not being backward compatible with 32 bit is mainly by design. There is always bitbrige until they are replaced.

BTW there is a replace synth option in the synths rack (right click the instrument).

vmw
I haven't read the whole thread so excuse me if I am going over old ground but Sony Creative Software also do this marketing  technique of get "super master" with you purchase. 1 or 2 version later it disappears. You are then left with older songs that tell you plugins are missing. These days I take no notice of the smoke and mirrors of new 3rd party features. As you know it will only survive one or 2 versions and to continue you have to buy the full version. Of course you can use extracted VST from the install files :) Don't think I am the first person on this is board to think of this course of action.

This doesn't really fall into that category since the plugin still works.  Vvocal was a third party plugin that was included with Sonar for 3 or so versions.  If you own it, it still works.  It is rare when third party plugins are licensed perpetually.

Wow VVocal is almost 8 years old. Nuff said..

I was doing a vocal tonight, so I made two copies...one with V-Vocal, one with Melodyne. I transposed both of them up 4 semitones, then rendered.
 
The timing on V-Vocal was definitely tighter. Without spending too much time measuring I'd estimate that Melodyne was equal to V-Vocal about 60% of the time, within 0-5 ms 30% of the time, and within 5-10 ms about 10% of the time.
 
I did notice that Melodyne was always ahead, never behind. So if you slipped it late by 4 ms, then you'd be plus or minus about 4 ms from the ideal almost all the time, and a 9ms deviation (the maximum I found) would turn into a 5ms deviation.
 
Given the non-percussive nature of voices, I doubt that a few milliseconds would make any audible difference, especially since most of the notes were on target. From a "test and measurement" rather than "audiophile" point of view, V-Vocal is more accurate. From an audiophile point of view, I'd say Melodyne sounded more natural mostly because it seems to have a better handle on what to do with non-melodic components. The more vocal artifacts there are, the more V-Vocal does that "phasey" sound others have noticed.
 
And thus concludes my own personal installment of Epic Rap Battles of History - V-Vocal vs. Melodyne.

FWIW,
 I did not look for evidence of timing issues until listening to the timing issues started driving me crazy.
 
 
 
 I use pitch correction tools to fix stuff that is off by a few "cents" in an effort to make the "mix" sound "glued". That's what I am looking for in pitch correction tool.
 
 It seems to me that Melodyne has gotten less satisfactory at doing that basic task as it has expanded it's capabilities. I am considering buying Auto Tune 7 as an antidote but from what I can gather a lot of guys, that use these tools for the small adjustments I am interested in, have observed that Auto Tune 5 was a sweet spot and that AT7 introduced the same sort of down graded results as it added more ambitious capabilities. You can read all about it on the internet, but you have to find the forums where guys are comfortable sharing their observations with people that they trust will not ridicule them for pointing out what anyone can observe if they take the time to do so.
 
 I share these observations, such as I have illustrated in the pictures I posted, because I feel that expanded awareness is the only way to create a market demand for excellence.
 
 Hi Craig,
 Thank you for taking the time to look and see for yourself.
 
 
 
 
 
 I have further frustrations with Melodyne Editor and its Melodic Algorithm's implementation of Pitch Drift Correction, but I see that there is an embedded idea that people that make these observations are assumed to be incapable or unwilling to learn how to make use of all the functionality available.
 
 The melodic pitch drift correction functionality has become quirky, the hand edit pitch drift tools do not provide an effective sounding solution, and the over all sound of the correction/drift melodic algorithm processes sound dead and lifeless compared to the results you can obtain with the older Melodyne Plugin math.
 
 I don't expect people who dismiss timing issues to care much about pitch problems, but I know that if one makes the effort to make the best use of, and takes the time to listen to the results of, both Melodyne Editor and the older Melodyne Plugin, for small fine tuning adjustments, that they will learn that two products sound different. In my opinion Editor doesn't sound as transparent or as free from artifacts.
 
 
 I hope that this will be improved with future updates, but I suspect that a fascination with placing vocals outside of a performers capable range, and or converting audio to MIDI, will continue to entertain people to the distraction of the most basic use of these products that purport to offer excellent pitch correction.

mike_mccue
 I don't expect people who dismiss timing issues to care much about pitch problems

Nobody's dismissing timing issues.

Well, that's a nicely laid out post, Mike.
 
I don't really do much with pitch correction - did a little with vocals using V-Vocal, but haven't messed around with Melodyne as of yet, other than to test out the conversion to midi feature when I got X3.
 
It makes sense to me to retain both tools, if one can, and it also makes sense that each has strengths and weaknesses, and that each likely has some set of issues.
 
Like any other tool in our toolboxes, you work within the limits each brings, trying to maximize their effectiveness and application in the process.
 
 
Bob Bone
 

Anderton
I was doing a vocal tonight, so I made two copies...one with V-Vocal, one with Melodyne. I transposed both of them up 4 semitones, then rendered.
 
The timing on V-Vocal was definitely tighter. Without spending too much time measuring I'd estimate that Melodyne was equal to V-Vocal about 60% of the time, within 0-5 ms 30% of the time, and within 5-10 ms about 10% of the time.
 
I did notice that Melodyne was always ahead, never behind. So if you slipped it late by 4 ms, then you'd be plus or minus about 4 ms from the ideal almost all the time, and a 9ms deviation (the maximum I found) would turn into a 5ms deviation.
 
Given the non-percussive nature of voices, I doubt that a few milliseconds would make any audible difference, especially since most of the notes were on target. From a "test and measurement" rather than "audiophile" point of view, V-Vocal is more accurate. From an audiophile point of view, I'd say Melodyne sounded more natural mostly because it seems to have a better handle on what to do with non-melodic components. The more vocal artifacts there are, the more V-Vocal does that "phasey" sound others have noticed.
 
And thus concludes my own personal installment of Epic Rap Battles of History - V-Vocal vs. Melodyne.

Sorry Mr.Anderton and sorry Mike to hear your render problems with VVocal especially.......
I love VVocal and i have studied its behavior for years,i  wrote that i use VVocal to fix time and pitch in vocal,bass and sax track.
But i use a different steps than you....i not render the clips after the fix it....i bounce the clips and after render the section of the track with the effects nedeed.
I have any single misalignment or phase problem with this kind of procedure.
Maybe I'm just lucky.
 
Best

GIM Productions
Sorry Mr.Anderton and sorry Mike to hear your render problems with VVocal especially.......
I love VVocal and i have studied its behavior for years,i  wrote that i use VVocal to fix time and pitch in vocal,bass and sax track.
 

Perhaps I wasn't clear that the timing "drift" issues were with Melodyne, not V-Vocal. However, it's important to emphasize a few crucial points.
 
First, I believe the best pitch correction tool is a punch-in. As long as you can hit the pitch, problem solved. Besides, a corrected pitch is not always a "good" pitch. Sometimes being a little off pitch is essential to give the right feel. When I use pitch correction, I turn off "snap" and move the pitch to what sounds good to my ears.
 
Second, I did an extreme case to find the truth (remember, I'm the guy who did experiments so I could show that recording st 96kHz didn't make an audible sound quality improvement, only to find out that it did under some circumstances). I would never take an entire phrase and transpose it up 4 semitones, I'd use the iZotope transpose algorithm.
 
But for me, from a practical standpoint these issues are irrelevant because of how I use Melodyne. For pitch correction, I only make slight changes in a few places, otherwise I punch. I also use it to generate harmonies and in that case, I often add timing differences anyway on purpose so a few "bonus" milliseconds don't matter. Also, for harmonies Melodyne sounds more natural overall because as noted above, it seems to handle non-tonal vocals sounds (breaths and sibilants) better...I close mic a lot, so that's an issue.
 
Both V-Vocal (stability notwithstanding) and Melodyne can be extremely useful tools and both have unique strengths and limitations. I think the only reason people are getting bent out of shape is that those who've learned to love V-Vocal are upset that it has apparently become a zombie product, and therefore Cakewalk has needed to find an alternate solution with greater potential longevity.

I like to use pitch correction on fretted bass guitar tracks so they play in tune with equal temper scale piano and provide a basis* for a sweet sounding harmony when you mix in the other instruments.
 
One can punch in all they want... a fretted bass guitar isn't going to play in tune with a piano unless you punch in every note and tune up in between.
 
 
 
*it's not just a pun.