• SONAR
  • The End of V-Vocal? (p.24)
2014/07/20 06:18:57
mettelus
One thing with Melodyne that bothered me is that successive upgrades end up costing more than buying the higher product outright (based on their web page). This was a couple months ago, so not sure if the same; but an upgrade to Studio from Editor was only like $100 off the regular Studio price. That price structure just left me scratching my head and closing the page.
2014/07/20 06:22:35
Sanderxpander
It sucks having to adjust to a new UI if you were comfortable with the old one, no matter which programs or interfaces you're switching. I recognize that. Personally I'm happier with Melodyne than V-Vocal so I lucked out, I guess. The Melodyne interface, to me, is much more musically relevant - it looks almost like a piano roll so I instantly understand which note is where and what to do with it. This includes rhythmic changes. It's just a lot easier for me to work because I go in thinking "that A is a little flat" or "the F is a little early", and in Melodyne it's instantly visualised. In V-Vocal I always had to spend some time figuring out what was what. So on a very basic musical level I connect with Melodyne much more, even disregarding which buttons to click. I can imagine this is different depending on everyone's musical background.

As for the upgrade price, again, Celemony has been offering the upgrade to Editor to all Sonar users for 150 so far. First it was a standing offer with a set ending date but everyone who asked about it after buying Sonar got it for that price. I was one of the first people to buy the upgrade and they actually refunded me 150 because I paid the full 300, jumping on it about three hours before they started offering the upgrade deal. So I don't see why you or anyone else should pay 350, let alone 600. Also, as far as I know, the first versions of Melodyne, when it really was a niche product and the only in its class, were more like 1500.
2014/07/20 14:23:41
RexRed
Anderton
And please don't get me wrong..if you adore V-Vocal, that's fine with me. I'm just trying to correct misinformation so people can make decisions based on the reality of the program and the company that produces it, not speculation or a lack of understanding of particular aspects of the program. 


If I have misinformation in my understanding of this issue please correct me, I am here to learn and not just spout off misconceptions. Your input is much appreciated.
 
Thanks for the tip on bypassing the welcome screen, I can shut it off in essential too. Not sure why I did not notice it but again thanks.
2014/07/20 14:35:12
Anderton
RexRed
Anderton
And please don't get me wrong..if you adore V-Vocal, that's fine with me. I'm just trying to correct misinformation so people can make decisions based on the reality of the program and the company that produces it, not speculation or a lack of understanding of particular aspects of the program. 


If I have misinformation in my understanding of this issue please correct me, I am here to learn and not just spout off misconceptions. Your input is much appreciated.




No problem. People should know about things like being able to turn off the welcome screen. They also need to understand the scope and size of the music industry, which is tiny and therefore places significant constraints on companies.
2014/07/20 15:11:10
azslow3
RexRed
Price: 
US$4,458
20 megabyte app
 
Cel your house, cel your kids, cel your wife to get the mony... :)

The size of my plug-in is 70 kB at the moment.
The source code - ~14000 lines of hand written code.
You can multiply...
 
Reading this thread, I have remembered very old Russian joke. Originally mentioned nationality replaced by X. Pushkin and Dostoevskij are famous Russian writers, just in case...:
 
Yang man from X comes to literature hi school, he wants to learn there:
Teacher : "What do you know about Pushkin?"
Man: "Who is that?"
Teacher : "Hmm... Which books of Dostoevskij you know?"
Man: "Common, I am not a reader, I am  WRITER!"

 
2014/07/21 09:47:21
Skarda
All I can say is "THE PENCIL TOOL"  Vvocal is my go to tool. Melodyne's issues of artifacts is only the same not better than vvocal. 
1) Vvocal has the pencil to. Great to draw out over dips on unskilled singers. Melodyne does not
2) Vvocal stretches & moves articulation like a champ. Melodyne is average at this.
3) Vvocal has the vibrato tool. great for unskilled singer. To add or calm down vibrato. Melodyne does not.
4) Vvocal is much more simple and intuitive
    I have X3 pro but only use X2 as even in X3, Cake did something weird with Vvocal. It's been a while now but if i recall, it does not save the original track when you bounce Vvocal. Yes there are work arounds, but very annoying to have to make dup track first. Also seems less stable in X3. I will not be upgrading anymore unless Vvocal is included in future versions to work the same as X2. I have always upgraded since version 4 as I enjoy the "latest greatest" but lets face it folks, there's been no improvements to the quality of sound if you simply record the old fashion way using only microphones. It already works great. Everything else is whistles and bells. (which I also enjoy some of those now and then)
 
Some mentioned above about amateur use. Well I hate to break it to them. Most home recorders are amateur. That critique is a bit and pompous. Here's a few reasons people love vocal correction
 - Me (whom is skilled) and likes to record family projects with unskilled singers of nieces, nephews, brother sister etc.
 - The great guitar guitar player, bass player, rhythm player, that need to use his own poor or ave vocals because that's all they've got, but else wise has a great project.
 - The skilled singer that barely need it but want to add that extra shine.
When I was a professional marathon runner in the 80s, I worked in a running shoe store. Guess who was buying 99% of the shoes. You got it, recreational joggers and walkers. (whom I loved to work with). So that's what most shoe companies cater to.  Without the amateurs, Cakewalk or other companies would not exist. 
 
Back to  Melodyne. It's simply not as intuitive and lacks the tools that Vvocal has. Also keep in mind that Melodyne, being a 3rd party company will likely be gone in the future. And even though Vvocal is by Roland many years ago. It was written and packaged for Cake and Cake sort of adopted it as it's own product. So I will be surprised to see it go away...             
I VOTE FOR V-VOCAL...
 
2014/07/21 10:12:47
robert_e_bone
I think the consensus of folks is that whatever tool you wish to use is fine, and it isn't a competition.
 
If you like V-Vocal, have a blast with it.
 
If you like Melodyne, have a blast with it.
 
If you use both, have a blast with both of them.
 
If you use neither, congratulations on perfect pitch, and have a blast using neither of them.
 
Bob Bone
 
2014/07/21 10:38:56
Anderton
Skarda
1) Vvocal has the pencil to. Great to draw out over dips on unskilled singers. Melodyne does not
3) Vvocal has the vibrato tool. great for unskilled singer. To add or calm down vibrato. Melodyne does not.

 
I'm also a fan of the pencil tool, but FYI, the Editor version has the "pitch drift" tool for (1) and "pitch modulation" tool for (3). However, it can't create "LFO-type" vibrato. For that, it's necessary to insert a vibrato processor into the track and use automation to control the amount. 
 
I have X3 pro but only use X2 as even in X3, Cake did something weird with Vvocal. It's been a while now but if i recall, it does not save the original track when you bounce Vvocal.

 
The original track is always retained until you bounce the V-Vocai or Melodyne clip to itself. What V-Vocal did was create an automatic "safety" copy, which it no longer does.
 
Also seems less stable in X3.

 
For most people it's been more stable, but there do seem to be use cases where V-Vocal "does not play well with others." It seems like maybe this relates to mixes of 32- and 64-bit plugs, or using V-Vocal in Take Lanes mixed with Melodyne. In any event, V-Vocal has had stability issues in general and that's true of operating it within X3 as well.
 
Some mentioned above about amateur use. Well I hate to break it to them. Most home recorders are amateur.



Anyone who thinks professionals don't use pitch correction hasn't been to a recording studio in the past several years. It is used extensively in all forms of music, so I don't see any reason why amateurs shouldn't be able to take advantage of the same tools as well.
2014/07/21 18:29:04
codamedia
Skarda
Also keep in mind that Melodyne, being a 3rd party company will likely be gone in the future. It was written and packaged for Cake and Cake sort of adopted it as it's own product. So I will be surprised to see it go away...  

V-Vocal has been forgotten for Roland for many years already. Cakewalk has absolutely no control of it, and no say in the matter. V-Vocal is the "XP" of pitch correction... it may still work, but it's already on borrowed time. 
 
I'm not taking sides on the two products (I refuse to argue over this)... I'm simply stating that if you are looking for a solid future in pitch correction - you may want to re-evaluate your thoughts
2014/07/21 19:18:11
dubdisciple
codamedia
Skarda
Also keep in mind that Melodyne, being a 3rd party company will likely be gone in the future. It was written and packaged for Cake and Cake sort of adopted it as it's own product. So I will be surprised to see it go away...  

V-Vocal has been forgotten for Roland for many years already. Cakewalk has absolutely no control of it, and no say in the matter. V-Vocal is the "XP" of pitch correction... it may still work, but it's already on borrowed time. 
 
I'm not taking sides on the two products (I refuse to argue over this)... I'm simply stating that if you are looking for a solid future in pitch correction - you may want to re-evaluate your thoughts


I think sums up what most have been saying. There has been little talk against Vvocal. Just statement of fact that Cakewalk does not own it and is not likely to buy the code.
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