• SONAR
  • How do you record band live in studio and at small venue using splat
2017/03/23 13:42:17
brekus1
I'm trying to record our 5 piece band live in studio and want to avoid everyone using headphones.  I can direct input the keys, bass and use an emulation in on the lead guitar.  However, I need to mic the acoustic drums and the rhythm guitar.  Also, using five mics for vox.  I am using a Roland Studio Capture with everything going directly into the studio capture and then one set of outputs to a power amp and onto the house speakers.    The studio capture has direct monitoring for all channels, which I am not using as I want the processed sound to be output when performing live in small venues.  
 
I have major feedback issues. These issues are not present when using running the same set up through an external mixer.  I couldn't seem to get any level at all without an immediate and intense feedback loop.  Clearly, I am missing something. 
 
Does anyone use SPLAT for recording live performances, if so any help on correct routing is greatly appreciated. 
 
Thanks
 
Dell core i5 laptop, 4 gig ram, win 10 Roland studio capture, splat last stable win 10 version of October 2016.
2017/03/23 15:59:14
chuckebaby
Do you have input echo engaged on your "Emulated lead guitar" track ? try turning it off and only using Record on each track as test to narrow it down.
I Don't typically do live sound like this so this is not my strong point, just trying to bump your thread and give you some ideas. I typically use headphones (using a headphone amp with 5 inputs) but that's no help to you .
 
Being able to hear plug-in audio effects applied to a live signal is great. However, there are issues with using the input monitoring feature. live input monitoring can lead to nasty feedback problems.
2017/03/23 16:23:43
LLyons
First- this may not be all that helpful, but it might provide insight to other websites to see the possibilities, that might already be available with your hardware, since I do not know its capabilities. 
 
I do three versions of recording.   Single instrument at a time in studio - I use the MOTU stuff for it, its internal router and mixer a so flexible, I can mix and route in about any way I can conjure, and in any room or location in my house. The quality is rather good.   Multi track, in studio and Multi track, live - no doubt about it, presonus RM and CS products are perfect price point in my application.
 
With the RM32ai, I have 16 outs for headphones,  32 ins with compressors and eq available before the signal hits the DAW.  It has a web app router and mixer.  SO that said,  in a multi track studio recording environment, I can send monitor mixes of 8 stereo pairs, coming in from any one of the input channels AND group them so that I can quickly call up a cue mix for each of the 8 stereo pairs and adjust it.  Each of the talent can use an iPAD or iPhone to change their own mix.  I can send a click track to any one of the mixes for SPlat.  If we already have takes, I can send any track from SPlat into any monitor cue.  I LOVE SPlat because of its unlimited signal flow possibilities . I have a 6 stereo channel headphone amp.  We do use a few floor wedges too.  The trick is to isolate their sound from any close mic - and never send a click track to them.   I will say, in such a configurable environment,  I spend more time getting the correct mic placement, and queue mixes ready, than I do with any of the other engineering work.    
 
Then, the power of the CS and RM are that they are built for LIVE work, even though they work well in a studio environment.  I tend to use Studio One to record when in the live environment because it has native tools that work well with the RM unit.  You can also use the same VSTi's on each instrument and vocal LIVE, that you recorded with.  HOWEVER - in the studio environment I USE SPlat ALWAYS.  The live recordings are only used for the band personal consumption, or to create a video with as a promotion for my band.  When I am working on a video, I create stem mixes out from S1, import them in with the video into SPlat and do all the audio for video editing in SPlat.  
 
 
LL 
2017/03/23 16:29:03
BASSJOKER
You may find mixing later on much more difficult if your drums and vox/gtr etc are not segregated during recording ...though I suspect you know this....I concur with Chucke....likely the echo is problem. The headphone for all route is really nice cause all can easily dial in what they need to hear during recording.....though it is an investment...but worth it's weight in long run. My lil studio requires this setup ...and actually is easier on the ears too ;-) I hope you have a successful recording time ;-)
2017/03/23 17:32:13
Sanderxpander
I don't know what kind of room and mics you're using but I could imagine the drum OHs feedbacking very easily if you play those over speakers in the same room.
2017/03/23 22:17:30
meh
If you are using a board see if you can route the instrument mics just to the recording not through the PA speakers?
 
rafone
2017/03/24 04:50:21
brekus1
Great advice everyone.  Most likely the input monitoring is the culprit.  When we get together next week I'll isolate each tracks' signal and see if I can determine where where the feedback is being generated.  
 
No need for any of the drum mics to be heard when practicing.  I can use the inserts from a board which we don't usually use when practicing to keep the signal in sonar separate and send the original signal onto the mains in the room.  Also, no need to send the signals from the instrument mics through the PA, which on further thought is another likely source of the feedback problem.  I'll use headphones for now to hear what is coming into sonar so I have a basis for further editing. 
 
I'll update as soon as I have another go at our next practice. 
 
Very thankful to all for the replies!
 
Andy
 
Dell core i5 laptop, 4 gig ram, win 10 x64,  Roland studio capture, splat last stable win 10  x 64 version of October 2016.
 
2017/03/24 21:02:08
jpetersen
This is a studio situation? Why then the house speakers? Let the band play naturally without foldback sound.
 
I do exactly this kind of recording all the time, usually in the band's rehearsal room. A good performance is vital and I only get that if the musicians are at their ease. I would never let them hear what they really sound like.
 
It's also the case that they immediately want to hear what they recorded. I never allow that. Just give technical excuses. They will cuss you and tell you what a useless recording engineer you are. Let them.
 
Listen to them during the recording using good earplugs and over them put closed isolating drummer's headphones.That way you can turn up the volume to drown out the live sound without damaging your ears.
 
As they play, make notes as the song progresses, noting who made what mistake in which bar. Make them do it again until the vital parts (usually vocals and overall groove) works.  Later you'll want to comp the best parts into one track.
 
Also know when to quit. After the 3rd run through of a song, if it ain't happening, tell them to work on that number and move on to the next song.
2017/03/24 21:08:18
stevesweat
Sanderxpander
I don't know what kind of room and mics you're using but I could imagine the drum OHs feedbacking very easily if you play those over speakers in the same room.

Surely he's not putting any drums through the speakers! That would definitely do it
2017/03/24 21:17:39
stevesweat
Personally I would never use a guitar emulator in a DAW for a live show. Especially if I was recording simultaneously with the same DAW.  
 
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