2017/02/27 19:49:05
LENovik
Wow, I certainly don't know enough to understand all that, though I do comprehend some of it and will work on it. Yes, this is for when playing live. If I can figure out what all that means, such as "always echo current MIDI  track," and "VI (virtual instrument)?" and "untick IM" on both tracks. I prob could figure all this out, but I would still have to use the mouse to cursor to the next track--which would be a little quicker than using the mouse to highlight that next track-but not ideal.
.
I just wondered if the act of switching from 1 track to another could be recorded somehow so that it could just be done automatically. One  moment I'm playing a lead synth, and a second later the piano track is automatically selected. Also, when I'm playing piano with both hands on my 73 key Kronos, I don't have enough extra room to assign the lead synth to.
Thanks for all your input.
 
Actually, now that I'm thinking about it, I  could prob copy (clone) each of these 2 tracks to save for reference. I could then simply start on the track that has my synth lead. When it comes time for the piano to play, I could put in a program change command (at least I know how to do that.) I think that would prob work. THen, another program change when it comes time to play the lead synth tone again, etc. I'm just not sure if the music notation that I have streaming while I play would follow the new program change each time. Of course, I'll try it soon
 
LNovik
2017/03/11 12:51:50
LENovik
Just checkin' in again. When I  tried to put in program changes in my track, the corresponding staff view did NOT follow the new track. This sound reasonable---though not what I had wished for--since changing to a new sound program in the track should not change the midi information. I could display the note notation for the 2 main tracks simultaneously, which is what I'll prob end up doing.
HOWEVER, this is still "running thru hoops." Thus, again, if anyone knows a way I can simply have Sonar record a few commands, such as changing from 1 track to another during a song, that would be nice. I would even be very appreciative if someone could relay that message to Cakewalk, so they could consider putting this feature in future upgrades. Thus, it would be a macro within Sonar, but not within a specific track. A macro macro, if you will.
Thanks for reading this.
LNovik
2017/03/11 14:01:15
azslow3
If the sequence of operations can be expressed as a (fixed!) sequence of keyboard operations, then external programs like AutoHotkey can do the trick.
If the sequence can not be expressed such way, then you need some even more advanced scripting solution.
Sonar has no own scripting language for interface operations (it has it for MIDI manipulation, CAL), at least not directly.
 
As Ken and I have already mentioned, you can use AZ Controller for that purpose. For example:
* Strip Track <First> +3, Function Select strip : will switch focus to Track 4
or
* Strip Track <Tracks> <Piano>, Function Select strip: will switch focus to Track with name "Piano" ("Tracks"/"Piano" predefined)
 
The problem is that what you do in Sonar, except assignable to computer keyboard "commands", has no absolute meaning and can have many interpretations. Just clicking of Track 4 named "Piano" can mean you want to focus:
* WAI track +2 (if WAI starts at Track 2)
* Always Track 4
* Track "Piano", which is currently Track 4
* Next track, if Track 3 was in focus before
* Previous track, if Track 5 was in focus before
* etc.
"Macro macro" recorder you propose will have to choose one "action" to record. But which?
And that operation is one of simplest.
 
That is why so called "Control surfaces" are operating with DAWs (any, not only Sonar) either throw "MIDI Learn" (one control - one fixed operation, for operations which are "fixed") or throw complicated scripts (f.e. in Ableton that are Python scripts, in Sonar C++ programs). They define complicated reaction logic based on what users normally want in particular situation (so, not just a "macro", but taking transport, layouts, modes, etc. into account).
2017/03/12 14:52:47
LENovik
Hi,
Thanks for that reply, AZslow3. While I don’t understand it all, the gist, I believe, is that Macro programs are better at remembering keystrokes than random mouse clicking—such as when I highlight the number of a track different from the current one.
I guess you are saying that AutoHotKey is an external program I could purchase/download and work within Sonar to accomplish the task of remembering keystrokes. Correct?
How about AZ controller? Is that also an external program, or is it part of Sonar? Would that be as good as AutoHotKey?
Lastly, and perhaps most importantly—though perhaps you already touched on this in your last note and I just did not understand it---is there an alternate keyboard path to choosing different tracks within songs (rather than just mouse clicking the number of that track?) I have noted that when I use the “Up” arrow key, the track above the current track seems to be chosen. However, the number of the original track stays highlighted, and the music notation that I have enabled from the 1st track does not switch to the notation for that new track.
Hope that’s not too many questions.
Thanks again.
LNovik
2017/03/12 15:03:47
bvideo
No-mouse version: Echo-enable both tracks, set automation to mute track 2 while track1 should play, then mute track 1 and unmute track 2. Track three combines the two parts and is muted, but provides the score you wish to follow.
2017/03/12 21:37:54
LENovik
thanks. that sounds fairly simple. Echo (on and off) is something I've managed to stay away from. However, I just read up on it, and will try it soon. I"m not sure where in your example the 3rd track, the one that combines the date of track 1 and 2, came from. I realize I need it so I can see the music notation for both tracks, and I realize it has to be muted the whole time. I guess you are telling me to create a midi track and combine tracks 1 and 2 into it. Instead of this=assuming this is what I would have to do==I  could simply highlight tracks 1 and 2 and then R click to get my notation view. The notation for each track would appear.
LNovik
2017/03/12 21:50:20
azslow3
LENovik
Hi,
Thanks for that reply, AZslow3. While I don’t understand it all, the gist, I believe, is that Macro programs are better at remembering keystrokes than random mouse clicking—such as when I highlight the number of a track different from the current one.

Yes, they are better with keyboard sequences. Some can click as well, but if the layout is changed it will miss correct point...
 

I guess you are saying that AutoHotKey is an external program I could purchase/download and work within Sonar to accomplish the task of remembering keystrokes. Correct?

I was mentioned it is an example for such external (general, not Sonar specific) program. There are many. This one you can Google, it is free and open source.
 

How about AZ controller? Is that also an external program, or is it part of Sonar? Would that be as good as AutoHotKey?

AZ Controller is third party (my) Sonar specific control surface plug-in. Free (not open source). It does not work with computer keyboard, only with MIDI devices (or OSC, or Gamepad/Joystick). Unlike external general macro programs, it operates in Sonar operations. Many usual Sonar keyboard bindings can be used, as well as sending (computer) keyboard keys and sequences. But it can does things directly, f.e already mentioned "Focus 'Piano' track".
 

Lastly, and perhaps most importantly—though perhaps you already touched on this in your last note and I just did not understand it---is there an alternate keyboard path to choosing different tracks within songs (rather than just mouse clicking the number of that track?) I have noted that when I use the “Up” arrow key, the track above the current track seems to be chosen.

Sonar support shortcuts (see preferences). Up/Down arrows are Previous/Next track.
 

However, the number of the original track stays highlighted, and the music notation that I have enabled from the 1st track does not switch to the notation for that new track.

That is a bit tricky Sonar philosophy. Sonar has "focused"/"current" strip (can be only one). But there are "selected" strips (can be several). They are decoupled, I mean focusing strip does not mean it is selected. But selecting strip also focus it. Selected strips are indicated by highlighting track numbers, focused strip is indicated by highlighted strip name. Selection for tracks coupled with the content selection in these strips.
 
"autoecho" follows "focus", while many operations, including staff view, follow "selection".
 
bvideo
No-mouse version: Echo-enable both tracks, set automation to mute track 2 while track1 should play, then mute track 1 and unmute track 2. Track three combines the two parts and is muted, but provides the score you wish to follow.

Yet another approach, good one! My 2 cents to it:
* to automate mute, do not forget switch to "automated mute".
* it is possible to "group" mute, so muting one track automatically unmute another. Good for interactive switching. When used with automated mute, do not forget to write the automation into both tracks (otherwise grouping will not work on automation playback).
2017/03/13 15:34:38
craigr68
I use Sonar to provide backing tracks so I can play live along with those tracks using Sonar.  I use a DX7IIFD (with E! expansion) from the 80s.  Each DX7 preset can be set to transmit on any of the 16 midi channels.  So I have it set so DX7 button 1 is chan 1, button 2 is chan 2, and so on.  Then I just set up my VIs in Sonar to match those channels to select various sounds.  In addition, I send program changes to the DX7 which does automatic sound switching so I don't have to push the DX7 buttons.  The sounds automatically switch as I play away.  That's simple to do - I just set up a midi track to send midi program changes out the midi interface to the DX7 Midi in (which in turn selects the sound I want - kind of a circular thing). 
 
You can do this with any standard Midi keyboard that doesn't have the special DX7 functionality I mention above - if you add Midiox and Loopbe1 to the setup.  I use a 2nd standard Midi keyboard that only transmits on one particular channel.  For that, I have Midiox do program change translations (signal flow below).  Midiox will also allow you to do splits, controller conversions, and much more.  It took me quite a while to figure out how to do this but it works fine if you dig in.  I set this up months ago, and as long as I have Midiox & Loopbe1 running in the background, I never worry about it.  Midiox and loopbe1 (limit 2 virtual ports) are free.
 
Midi Kybd (transmits prog changes on chan1) --> Midiox (recognizes prog change and selects a data map which I setup to convert midi data to desired midi channel) --> LoopBe1 (2 virtual midi ports) --> Sonar (set to receive virtual midi port which can be set as midi input to any track).
 
2017/03/15 14:11:40
LENovik
I did try choosing "echo on" for the 2 tracks, but that did not make a difference. Getting a third party macro system did sound promising, but that would again involve learning another application--though I realize not that complicated. I like the idea of doing things with muting and seeing if I could record those moves using record automation, but my song does not seem to be transmitting the program changes--even though program change IS enabled on my Korg Kronos.
What I finally did was to use a Set list to display each of the 2 sounds I need to quickly access on this song. It is much quicker to press a box with my finger on my synth's LED display that it is to grasp the mouse and maneuver to the track and click it. I realize I could use the up arrow to go to the next track, though when I would have to go back to the lower track, I cannot use the down arrow since I've converted (as a hot key) that key as a pause control.
Thanks for all your feedback.
LNovik
2017/03/15 14:43:25
craigr68
I originally was hoping I could control Cakewalk VSTs directly with program changes but ultimately gave up.  A while ago, I did a test of all the VSTs and found only a couple respond to program changes - like TTS for instance - but not Rapture Pro or Zeta.  That's why I instead assign a VST track to a particular midi channel and control it externally with Midiox and LoopBe1 as described in my previous post.  Because that's the only way I could get it to work for live playing.  Since that works well, I'm ok with that now.  I'm just a little disappointed Cakewalk isn't more flexible with program changes.  I've come to the conclusion that live playing with midi program changes isn't Cakewalk's thing but I really like it otherwise.  
 
I also tried the mute method.  It's been a year ago or so.  There was something I didn't like about it but it did at least generally work.
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