• SONAR
  • ProTools fail - Sonar succeed (p.2)
2017/02/26 14:59:48
Anderton
gswitz
One of Craig's tips shows how to build your own stereo width control with channel tools and an FX chain. I know this isn't what you want, but it might help.



I did a newer tip where you insert Channel Tools in the FX Rack, and use the assignable faders. That way you have pan sliders for the L and R channels (called "Angle") built directly into the Console. But even better, you can assign the other two sliders to Width so you can weight/spread the image any way you want in the stereo field. For example you can spread the left channel from left to center, while the right channel is hard right.
 
Try it, and any feature request for dual panpots will become moot. Even if SONAR had dual panpots, I'd never use that feature because this approach delivers more functionality yet takes up very little space.The assignable faders even show up (and can be adjusted) in Console View's narrow tracks, and if you Ctrl+drag the Channel Tools FX into another track, it retains the custom fader assignments. 
 

2017/02/26 18:48:20
Sanderxpander
This is embarrassing but I totally missed that feature - how do you get those faders to show up??
2017/02/26 19:01:51
Anderton
In the Console View:
 
Options > FX > Show Assignable Controls
 
Now you know the perils of not following "Friday's Tip of the Week." If this happens again, I won't be so lenient. 
2017/02/26 19:05:22
Sanderxpander
Haha dammit, I've been exposed! Thanks, Craig, point well made!
2017/02/26 19:15:17
Anderton
Also note you can right-click on the faders and assign them to whatever you want in the selected effect. And when you select a different effect, it shows the assignments for that one. This is a huge feature that has been in SONAR since the pre-X days.
2017/02/26 19:40:35
gswitz
So...
 
Just a quick refresher for me...
 
I tried what you show here and it's pretty cool. I did notice that when Width changes Angle, the angle value doesn't update on the channel strip (only in the UI for the Channel Tools Effect).
 
It also brought back the need to understand what Width does verses Angle.
 
It appears to me that Width is basically volume suppression for the signal paired with moving the angle. When you spread the width, the channel gets softer. The signal gets routed to both left and right according to the Angle value which moves as you increase the width. The Increasing width shows how much the volume of that signal gets reduced. When you spread the width 100% you get so quiet it's hard to hear (but some does come through).
 
I don't think there is any polarity flip or phase inversion happening. The phase stays vertical slanted according to the angle. If there were a phase inversion, it would go more horizontal than the position of the angle would call for.
 
Am I missing anything?
 
 
2017/02/27 01:46:05
Sanderxpander
Anderton
Also note you can right-click on the faders and assign them to whatever you want in the selected effect. And when you select a different effect, it shows the assignments for that one. This is a huge feature that has been in SONAR since the pre-X days.

I can't believe I missed it because yes, that's a pretty huge feature.
2017/02/27 02:05:58
Rob[at]Sound-Rehab
gswitz
 
I tried what you show here and it's pretty cool. I did notice that when Width changes Angle, the angle value doesn't update on the channel strip (only in the UI for the Channel Tools Effect).


 
I have tried the "Options > FX > Show Assignable Controls" thing a while ago, but I think I remember running into the same issue as gswitz.
 
 
IMHO there is no convincing argument against a width control which is a single knob right next to the pan knob AND also controlable from a control surface e.g. via SHIFT+pan because then it would be cleary visible, directly accessible and intuitive ... but that I doubt will ever happen with Cakewalk's interest in control surface functionality
 
So I will stick to inserting plugs like WAVES S1 where I can control rotation (=pan) and width via ACT by only 2 knobs (and can even go asymmetrical if I need to)
 
http://www.waves.com/plugins/s1-stereo-imager#
 
 
2017/02/27 02:11:16
LJB
The only PT I have ever used ins version 9 on my laptop. I use it for live tracking only . Something about the recording engine just sits better - it doesn't give me any reason to expect a fail and it never has.
Sonar X3 did let me down a few times in the large-format situation and frankly I have been too scared to try SPLAT.
 
But for all other instances, SPLAT is my go-to as a professional engineer.
2017/02/27 11:54:11
Anderton
gswitz
It also brought back the need to understand what Width does verses Angle.

 
Some of this depends on whether the track is mono or stereo. Also, check out Alternate mode for the pan controls, which keeps the width fixed as you move angle, rather than have it adapt automatically. However note that this works only with the Channel Tools UI; the assignable faders do not respond to alternate mode. I recommended clicking on the Channel Tools GUI and typing F1 to bring up the documentation, which explains all this in detail.
 
Also note that the assignable controls are affected by lenses. If you want the settings to persist from one project to the next, you need to either save the lens with the assignments, or simply set lenses to "none" before making the assignments, and have it set to none when saving the project.
 
Rob[atSound-Rehab]
IMHO there is no convincing argument against a width control which is a single knob right next to the pan knob AND also controlable from a control surface e.g. via SHIFT+pan because then it would be cleary visible, directly accessible and intuitive ... but that I doubt will ever happen with Cakewalk's interest in control surface functionality.

 
The Assignable Faders can be controlled by an external controller. In fact with some effects, it's the only way to allow real-time MIDI control (e.g., a footpedal) instead of automation.
 
So I will stick to inserting plugs like WAVES S1 where I can control rotation (=pan) and width via ACT by only 2 knobs (and can even go asymmetrical if I need to)

 
The S1 is not really an equivalent plug-in, it's about stereo imaging in addition to placement. It's kind of like what would happen if you combined Channel Tools with the BT Stereo Imager, and added a few more features (like the S1's Shuffle option). Whether it does enough in addition to what you can do in SONAR to justify $130 is of course up to the individual's needs.



 
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