Anderton,
 
Some of the quotes are not ones I meant directed at you.  You never used the word "tantrum" I believe. I think that was to someone else.

OK look, do I expect a software to be PERFECT?  No, absolutely not.  I wouldn't looking into other DAWs if it was just some bugs or things Cakewalk didn't do as well as others.   

If you were working with me in my studio, you would 100% agree with me on this.   I record a bunch of synth tracks, freeze them to save on CPU, come back the next day, the sounds are gone.  Or all the sudden, I notice my bass track is nuts because every note from a MIDI-out arppegio somehow made it to my bass track.

The problems are constant.   And I shouldn't need to as you say, save every patch, archive, etc...    it's a giant pain in the ass.   The whole point of that "freeze" button is to be quick and efficient.    If a dialog prompt came up when I was freezing a track saying "WARNING:  your synth parameters might be lost upon unfreeze, well, then I say its on me", but there isn't and I am not psychic.

You keep saying things to the effect that well Sonar just doesn't do things the way "I" would like, or that I don't want to bother with workarounds.   I say its worse than that.  I have projects literally destroyed by Sonar at this point. I consider it data loss when I re-open a project and a custom synth patch I made is lost or I come back and notice erroneous notes all over the place.
 
Craig, you are an Executive Vice-President at Gibson Brands, correct?  I know you have a vested interest in softening my thread, however I stand by in saying Sonar's MIDI engine needs a serious and complete overhaul.
 
I am a lifetime member, so for me - my money is in already, but its sad that most likely I am going to have to make a purchase with Cubase to program MIDI effectively.
 
I just hope one day Sonar comes to realize their MIDI solution (for advanced MIDI users) is sub-par (at least in my opinion) and advances their MIDI engine to the next level.

A GUI overhaul would be nice too.  Load up Presonus Studio 1.  It's just FAST.  It 'FEELS' very 2017.   It doesn't feel clunky.  I am not waiting for modules to load.   While this isn't a huge deal, it is nice to work with something that 'FEELS' nice and quick.   Load it up, try it.  Tell me what you think.
 
 

SBM, I saw your posts on Facebook and this forum about the synth parameters not being saved when freezing.  No doubt that is happening for you. 
 
I agree with your point about workarounds. . . I never like the idea of having to use a convoluted workaround for a feature that's supposed to work well.
 
HOWEVER, while some people said in the past they have experienced similar problems, every single person that tried recently on both of the threads you have said they can't reproduce the issue. 
 
You mentioned that various plugins display the issue across various projects.  Based on that, it seems like something is corrupted with your Sonar install.
 
I would suggest trying the following:
If you have another computer, setup the needed software and copy the project over and see if it happens on the other computer. 
 
If you CAN'T reproduce it on the other computer, it's probably something with your install or system.
- Backup your personal data and completely uninstall Sonar, clean the registry and system of the Sonar items (instructions online), and then reinstall Sonar
- Format your system and set up a clean install of everything
- Run diagnostics tests on your memory and hard drive
 
If you CAN reproduce it on another computer, then it's probably something about the project file or the specific combination of plugins or data, either corrupted or a bug.  Check with other users with the specifics and if it's not reproducible, send your project file to Cakewalk.  If it is reproducible, then it's probably a bug.

Plug-in parameters are a BULK data. Sonar (or other DAW) has no way to intentionally modify them directly. So, there are several possibilities:
1. modifications are not saved. For example you have changed some parameter and it is reverted back to previous value on load.
2. plug-in has a bug in saving/restoring its own configuration. But you mention that "many" plug-ins do this, also plug-ins which are not doing that for other users.
3. Sonar randomly corrupts saved data... There was such reports. But not many, I mean not sufficient to blame Sonar or some plug-in delivered with it. My best guess, some other plug-in has a bug. Yes, ANY plug-in in use can corrupt EVERYTHING in Sonar.
 
And finally, you can modify something by mistake. That is easy without intention, by grouping, MIDI learn, "remote control", ACT, keyboard shortcuts or bad MIDI routing (since you mention some "notes").
 
I have tried hard to reproduce you Z3TA2 video, click by click. I put the same preset as your default. There was 2 things I could not reproduce: current parameter change at 1:00, it is theoretically possible to move mouse this way, but that is hard within timing in the video... and the bug.
Do you have ANY control surface connected?
 

rlared
SBM, I saw your posts on Facebook and this forum about the synth parameters not being saved when freezing.  No doubt that is happening for you. 
 
I agree with your point about workarounds. . . I never like the idea of having to use a convoluted workaround for a feature that's supposed to work well.
 
HOWEVER, while some people said in the past they have experienced similar problems, every single person that tried recently on both of the threads you have said they can't reproduce the issue. 
 
You mentioned that various plugins display the issue across various projects.  Based on that, it seems like something is corrupted with your Sonar install.
 
I would suggest trying the following:
If you have another computer, setup the needed software and copy the project over and see if it happens on the other computer. 
 
If you CAN'T reproduce it on the other computer, it's probably something with your install or system.
- Backup your personal data and completely uninstall Sonar, clean the registry and system of the Sonar items (instructions online), and then reinstall Sonar
- Format your system and set up a clean install of everything
- Run diagnostics tests on your memory and hard drive
 
If you CAN reproduce it on another computer, then it's probably something about the project file or the specific combination of plugins or data, either corrupted or a bug.  Check with other users with the specifics and if it's not reproducible, send your project file to Cakewalk.  If it is reproducible, then it's probably a bug.

 
Thank you 'rlared'. I appreciate it.  I would normally try this first, but believe it or not, I've had Sonar on 3 different machines so far, and have had this problem on all of them.   I know, sounds crazy right?  
 
This machine I am on now is so new too. Newly purchased, clean fresh Windows install, then Office, then Sonar.  That's it!   (ofcourse my plugins after).   

It is strange that I get this on every install, no matter the computer.
 
I do appreciate your effort to help though.  Thank you very much!

azslow3
Plug-in parameters are a BULK data. Sonar (or other DAW) has no way to intentionally modify them directly. So, there are several possibilities:
1. modifications are not saved. For example you have changed some parameter and it is reverted back to previous value on load.
2. plug-in has a bug in saving/restoring its own configuration. But you mention that "many" plug-ins do this, also plug-ins which are not doing that for other users.
3. Sonar randomly corrupts saved data... There was such reports. But not many, I mean not sufficient to blame Sonar or some plug-in delivered with it. My best guess, some other plug-in has a bug. Yes, ANY plug-in in use can corrupt EVERYTHING in Sonar.
 
And finally, you can modify something by mistake. That is easy without intention, by grouping, MIDI learn, "remote control", ACT, keyboard shortcuts or bad MIDI routing (since you mention some "notes").
 
I have tried hard to reproduce you Z3TA2 video, click by click. I put the same preset as your default. There was 2 things I could not reproduce: current parameter change at 1:00, it is theoretically possible to move mouse this way, but that is hard within timing in the video... and the bug.
Do you have ANY control surface connected?
 

Hi azslow3,
 
Agree with you on your points, but on #3, this happens with NONE of my extra plugins loaded, just the latest Sonar and the latest Z3TA+2.  I doubt a plugin that is not loaded into memory or even the project could cause this issue.

I agree with you I could modify things by mistake (MIDI Learn, Remote Control, etc..) however I can say 100% that is not the case.  Event Viewer is just notes, and I checked any possible MIDI Learn, remote control, etc..

It's as clean as clean can be.   If you see the video below, you can see how clean and simple I made it.  Nothing should be causing this.  I did edit the video, but just to save time for the viewer, I had to answer an IM in between doing things lol.  I didn't edit out anything in Sonar.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovunWzz20B0
 
Thank you for your efforts though.  Much appreciated!


-Adam

SilverBlueMedallion

tlw

SilverBlueMedallion
MIDI data recorded all over the place that shouldn't be, etc...

I don't have that problem.

Wonder what I'm doing wrong?

As for Sonar being mistly used in home/project studios, that's almost certainly true of all DAWs. Even
Pro Tools after it split from the HD system that required a limited range of extremely expensive hardware.

 
you must not play a lot with MIDI-out from synths

I use it quite  a bit, but I pay attention to what I"m doing and how I route my tracks.  Never been a real issue.  Noticed it happen once and figured out why it did, so I actually make sure my MIDI is routed right.

Genghis

SilverBlueMedallion

tlw

SilverBlueMedallion
MIDI data recorded all over the place that shouldn't be, etc...

I don't have that problem.

Wonder what I'm doing wrong?

As for Sonar being mistly used in home/project studios, that's almost certainly true of all DAWs. Even
Pro Tools after it split from the HD system that required a limited range of extremely expensive hardware.

 
you must not play a lot with MIDI-out from synths

I use it quite  a bit, but I pay attention to what I"m doing and how I route my tracks.  Never been a real issue.  Noticed it happen once and figured out why it did, so I actually make sure my MIDI is routed right.

Yes, I can do the same....  but HERE is the problem.  I think I am figuring this out.   So, if I start Sonar with my keyboard UNPLUGGED, the input has no option but to go to "NONE" (which is really "OMNI"  (see:  http://forum.cakewalk.com/FindPost/3541278)
 
so when that happens, MIDI goes everywhere.   I shouldn't have to keep watching all the inputs all the time.  They change randomly.   

Hi Adam,
 
Some of your problems can not be reproduced by other. In such case they can not be fixed.
 

SilverBlueMedallion
Hi azslow3,
 
Agree with you on your points, but on #3, this happens with NONE of my extra plugins loaded, just the latest Sonar and the latest Z3TA+2.  I doubt a plugin that is not loaded into memory or even the project could cause this issue.

In the video, I see VST scan during startup... depending on scanning settings, other plug-ins can disturb operations. So, please turn automatic VST scanning off.
 

I agree with you I could modify things by mistake (MIDI Learn, Remote Control, etc..) however I can say 100% that is not the case.  Event Viewer is just notes, and I checked any possible MIDI Learn, remote control, etc..

I have already asked that question, and from your previous post the answer can not be "no". Which controllers and other MIDI equipment is enabled in Sonar MIDI  settings?
Try disable them ALL.
 
Event Viewer is not showing everything, in fact Sonar by default sending TONS of MIDI messages which you normally can not notice. Have you disabled "Reset controllers on play stop" in the Project / MIDI preferences ?
 

It's as clean as clean can be.   If you see the video below, you can see how clean and simple I made it.  Nothing should be causing this.  I did edit the video, but just to save time for the viewer, I had to answer an IM in between doing things lol.  I didn't edit out anything in Sonar.

I was not assuming you have manipulated the video. Just in case you have not focused the parameter by mouse, it could be focused by something else, which in turn could point in some direction to understand the problem.
 
The video is not clean in respect to MIDI. And SOMETHING is changing the parameter. I do not think this something is Sonar, the only way it can do this is explicitly setting it throw automation API. But so far there was no evidence it ever did that (as long as you are not using Control Surfaces and do not have Automation lanes in the project).
 
In this particular case, I can imagine that Z3TA has a bug (which we can not reproduce because of some specific MS runtime you have... in the video, you have plenty of "bloatware" installed and partially running... do you have it on your other computers as well?). The value after the project loading correspond to the default preset, shown in the beginning of the video. Try to change default preset in Z3TA and repeat the test. Does is still revert to the same value?
 
 

SilverBlueMedallion
 
Thank you 'rlared'. I appreciate it.  I would normally try this first, but believe it or not, I've had Sonar on 3 different machines so far, and have had this problem on all of them.   I know, sounds crazy right?  
 
This machine I am on now is so new too. Newly purchased, clean fresh Windows install, then Office, then Sonar.  That's it!   (ofcourse my plugins after).   

It is strange that I get this on every install, no matter the computer.
 
I do appreciate your effort to help though.  Thank you very much!

Have you tried with a clean install of Sonar and no additional plugins installed?

gustabo
 
Have you tried with a clean install of Sonar and no additional plugins installed?

I was wondering about this ... I don't doubt the problems being experienced ... but ... I have a modest i3 system with 8GB RAM that runs Sonar Platinum like greased lightning
 
Comments like this leave me wondering about the OP's computer setup.  
 
"Also look to Studio One for its "spiffyness".  The code FEELS new.  The GUI just loads.  You don't have to wait for different modules (like the synth rack for example)... it feels nice.  I don't know about the side of GUI programming, but I feel Studio One is built on some newer technology or something."