Couldn't agree more except I wouldn't mind a bit of an update. It's never come up in my mind that Cakewalk might be underhand in anyway.

Hey Rain ,
 
I like running Snow Leopard on my MacBook . Logic 9 and a bunch of other stuff runs real good in it .
At times I do feel a little locked out not being able to run some musical software I have that requires
a higher version of OSX ..so I run all that Jazz on my other machine an i Mac
 
 

 
 
to the general populace
Speaking out loud softly in a very calm tone to my self and possibly you if you happen to be reading this .
 
As much as I would Love to have SPlat running in OSX  on my Mac .I will probably have to go out and buy new Mac since the 2 Macs I have currently are not running a current spec OSX  operating system ..nor can they be upgraded to one ..
 
My hope and plan is to just sit tight , wait it out patiently , and then see what happens w SONAR Alpha when it actually happens..
 
I had high hopes when Magix was working on porting Samplitude over to Mac ...that one didn't happen ...
I have used FL 12 on my Mac in demo mode ...that one was happening ...and it is still not fully baked ...
 
I have a number of other DAW's approaching almost 10 that run flawlessly on both a PC and a Mac right over here where I'm sitting ...
Now do I know how those other musical software companies made that happen ?
No I don't , and truthfully as much as I like some of these other DAW's  Ole Kenny over here had gotten his cherry popped and lost his innocence the day he walking to Guitar Center on Ventura BLVD and purchased Home Studio 2 ...
So Yes I have an invested interest in wanting to be able to run SPlat in OSX
 
In the mean time , I'm not gonna sit here and rag on Cakewalk ..I feel it is almost pointless .
I don't feel it would accomplish much of any thing of a true lasting value ....
My rational is based more on a matter of principal as opposed to a sense of entitlement based on consumerism  ...
 
When was the last time you played in a band with a band leader or producer that constantly harassed you and stood over you like an Army Drill sergeant shouting at you in a public place no less like a forum at the top of his lungs ....
" You told me you were gonna learn how to play " Fill in the blank song " almost 2 months ago and I have been paying you full pay at all our gigs and you still don't know how to play the song .
At every gig the band can not put the song in rotation because you wont tell us why you haven't learned the song " " what the heck are we paying you for ? " 
 
Now rather that expound and augment that whole style of tirade lets take a look at the signal to noise ratio 
 
What makes that perfectly OK for consumers to do exactly that to a software company?
On the company's own web page to boot ?
 
I don't know ,  maybe Cakewalk employees just have thicker skin ?  or do they have stronger coping mechanisms to be able to filter all the cross-talk out like as if they are using the Pro Channel on humans 
 
What would happen if Cakewalk decided to treat some of us folks around here exactly like some of us have folks around here have treated Cakewalk  ?
Heck , lets say SONAR decides to do that ...
I open SONAR and the start up page reads
Hey Kenny , when are you gonna learn how to use audio snap ? you said you were gonna learn it years ago when SONAR 6 came out ...what 's the big hold up ? While your at it , you are perfectly aware that your version of SPlat does come with some very powerful mastering and EQ tools ..what 's up with that didn't you get the memo ? for the last few years not only have your mix's been all over the map bordering on a soundtrack worthy of a dog parks poop competition  ...
you are starting to make SONAR look bad in the eyes of the musical community ...
you would think that after all these years of you using SONAR  you would have yada yada yada yaday yada yada yaday yada yada
 
 
to be continued , or not to be continued-- that is the question ...
 
Kenny
 
 
 
 
 

jb101
Firstly, Cakewalk never promised that there would be an Mac version of Sonar.
 
They never gave a release date for Sonar on Mac for that very reason.
 
They did say there would be an Alpha version to "test the water".
 
When a company, particularly one as small as Cakewalk, gives a "date" as vague as "fall", then I take it as an indicator, not a firm date.  I do not plan my life round it.
 
Also, comparing Cakewalk to a large multinational is a little unfair, they do not have the same resources.
 
Cakewalk have never let me down in the past, or shown themselves to be underhand in ANY WAY WHATSOEVER.
 
If they said fall, and, let's face it, winter only started a few days ago, then I am prepared to cut them some slack.  I guess it's taking longer than expected.
 
As for a "lack of communication", I don't see a problem, either.  They said what they said, and are working towards it.  I genuinely hope that they are taking some time off over the festive season.  They deserve it.
 
I do not understand some people's attitude towards companies like Cake, as if they are "The Man".  I bet their car park doesn't have too many Rollers or Ferraris in it..

Firstly, no one here pretended that Cakewalk promised a Mac version. Cakewalk quite officially announced Sonar Alpha for Mac due out "this fall", to test the water. Everyone here understood that, and that is what was expected.
 
Secondly, accountability has got nothing to do with the size of the company, and neither does clarity. Though certainly less formal, this fall is no more vague than "next quarter".
 
The fact that you decide to treat the information as ultimately unreliable and choose to interpret it as "indefinite" is somewhat irrelevant.

No one compared Cakewalk to large multinationals. Whether you're a one-man operation or a small local business, accountability is crucial. Even individuals are held accountable by their bosses.
 
Yes, winter started a few days ago, on the 21st. As it does every year. The point being that, it did not sneak upon anyone by surprise. I have a tough time believing that no one at Cakewalk saw it coming.
 
As mentioned earlier, the problem is not that Cakewalk did not meet the deadline - and in this regard, the fact that they are a small company should certainly be taken into account. 
 
The fact that you don't see a communication problem does not mean that there isn't a problem. This may sound rude, but this not about YOU. 
 
It's about accountability, clarity and curtesy - in other words, professionalism.
 
Individuals, one-man operation, small and big companies all around the globe hold themselves up to such standards.
 
Unless the moral of the story really is that one shouldn't put too much stock into what Cakewalk says. But as I too have had some very good experiences as a Cakewalk customer, I refuse to regard them as anything less than professional. Thus, I'll say it again - I do believe they dropped the ball.
 
 

kennywtelejazz
Hey Rain ,
 
I like running Snow Leopard on my MacBook . Logic 9 and a bunch of other stuff runs real good in it .
At times I do feel a little locked out not being able to run some musical software I have that requires
a higher version of OSX ..so I run all that Jazz on my other machine an i Mac
 
 

 
Speaking out loud softly in a very calm tone to my self and possibly you if you happen to be reading this .
 
As much as I would Love to have SPlat running in OSX  on my Mac .I will probably have to go out and buy new Mac since the 2 Macs I have currently are not running a current spec OSX  operating system ..nor can they be upgraded to one ..
 
My hope and plan is to just sit tight , wait it out patiently , and then see what happens w SONAR Alpha when it actually happens..
 
I had high hopes when Magix was working on porting Samplitude over to Mac ...that one didn't happen ...
I have used FL 12 on my Mac in demo mode ...that one was happening ...and it is still not fully baked ...
 
I have a number of other DAW's approaching almost 10 that run flawlessly on both a PC and a Mac right over here where I'm sitting ...
Now do I know how those other musical software companies made that happen ?
No I don't , and truthfully as much as I like some of these other DAW's  Ole Kenny over here had gotten his cherry popped and lost his innocence the day he walking to Guitar Center on Ventura BLVD and purchased Home Studio 2 ...
So Yes I have an invested interest in wanting to be able to run SPlat in OSX
 
In the mean time , I'm not gonna sit here and rag on Cakewalk ..I feel it is almost pointless .
I don't feel it would accomplish much of any thing of a true lasting value ....
My rational is based more on a matter of principal as opposed to a sense of entitlement based on consumerism  ...
 
When was the last time you played in a band with a band leader or producer that constantly harassed you and stood over you like an Army Drill sergeant shouting at you in a public place no less like a forum at the top of his lungs ....
" You told me you were gonna learn how to play " Fill in the blank song " almost 2 months ago and I have been paying you full pay at all our gigs and you still don't know how to play the song .
At every gig the band can not put the song in rotation because you wont tell us why you haven't learned the song " " what the heck are we paying you for ? " 
 
Now rather that expound and augment that whole style of tirade lets take a look at the signal to noise ratio 
 
What makes that perfectly OK for consumers to do exactly that to a software company?
On the company's own web page to boot ?
 
I don't know ,  maybe Cakewalk employees just have thicker skin ?  or do they have stronger coping mechanisms to be able to filter all the cross-talk out like as if they are using the Pro Channel on humans 
 
What would happen if Cakewalk decided to treat some of us folks around here exactly like some of us have folks around here have treated Cakewalk  ?
 
to be continued , or not to be continued-- that is the question ...
 
Kenny
 
 
 
 
 

 
Hey Kenny,
 
I'm back on Snow Leopard! Install went alright and everything runs much, much smoother. I can't remember for which plug-in's sake it was that I first upgraded, but I regretted it not long after and ever since. So I can confirm - you're much wiser than I am, sticking with it! :)



As for the rest, maybe it's my decade working customer support and workforce management, but I have a tough time being as accommodating as others appear to be. 
 
I've worked for small and big companies, and for companies with bad reputation, but accountability has always been the corner stone of work ethics and business. And because it was so crucial for me when dealing with my customers, it's also important when I am in the customer's seat.
 
I've been swamped, with phones ringing and e-mails flooding my inbox and instant messages filling my screen, and my supervisor asking updates every hour. It never occurred to me that I could let slip any of that.
 
In fact, I've learned what accountability meant BECAUSE I was swamped. I had to learn and prioritize and communicate, and follow through and keep in touch. I had to diffuse those situation before things escalated. And communication goes a long way.
 
So while I would never condone insulting the individuals who work for Cakewalk, it does not seem unfair to voice one's concerns and opinions about the company. 
 
And then again, I'm also the first to give praises, and very vocal in my support.

Rain
 
It's about accountability, clarity and courtesy - in other words, professionalism.
 

Managing expectations seems to be a lost art. It is analogous to "the cover up being worse than the crime." Simple, straightforward communications goes a long way; but as this was linked in a way to the lifetime updates, I can understand waiting till Jan 1 to update status.

Rain

kennywtelejazz
Hey Rain ,
 
I like running Snow Leopard on my MacBook . Logic 9 and a bunch of other stuff runs real good in it .
At times I do feel a little locked out not being able to run some musical software I have that requires
a higher version of OSX ..so I run all that Jazz on my other machine an i Mac
 
 

 
Speaking out loud softly in a very calm tone to my self and possibly you if you happen to be reading this .
 
As much as I would Love to have SPlat running in OSX  on my Mac .I will probably have to go out and buy new Mac since the 2 Macs I have currently are not running a current spec OSX  operating system ..nor can they be upgraded to one ..
 
My hope and plan is to just sit tight , wait it out patiently , and then see what happens w SONAR Alpha when it actually happens..
 
I had high hopes when Magix was working on porting Samplitude over to Mac ...that one didn't happen ...
I have used FL 12 on my Mac in demo mode ...that one was happening ...and it is still not fully baked ...
 
I have a number of other DAW's approaching almost 10 that run flawlessly on both a PC and a Mac right over here where I'm sitting ...
Now do I know how those other musical software companies made that happen ?
No I don't , and truthfully as much as I like some of these other DAW's  Ole Kenny over here had gotten his cherry popped and lost his innocence the day he walking to Guitar Center on Ventura BLVD and purchased Home Studio 2 ...
So Yes I have an invested interest in wanting to be able to run SPlat in OSX
 
In the mean time , I'm not gonna sit here and rag on Cakewalk ..I feel it is almost pointless .
I don't feel it would accomplish much of any thing of a true lasting value ....
My rational is based more on a matter of principal as opposed to a sense of entitlement based on consumerism  ...
 
When was the last time you played in a band with a band leader or producer that constantly harassed you and stood over you like an Army Drill sergeant shouting at you in a public place no less like a forum at the top of his lungs ....
" You told me you were gonna learn how to play " Fill in the blank song " almost 2 months ago and I have been paying you full pay at all our gigs and you still don't know how to play the song .
At every gig the band can not put the song in rotation because you wont tell us why you haven't learned the song " " what the heck are we paying you for ? " 
 
Now rather that expound and augment that whole style of tirade lets take a look at the signal to noise ratio 
 
What makes that perfectly OK for consumers to do exactly that to a software company?
On the company's own web page to boot ?
 
I don't know ,  maybe Cakewalk employees just have thicker skin ?  or do they have stronger coping mechanisms to be able to filter all the cross-talk out like as if they are using the Pro Channel on humans 
 
What would happen if Cakewalk decided to treat some of us folks around here exactly like some of us have folks around here have treated Cakewalk  ?
 
to be continued , or not to be continued-- that is the question ...
 
Kenny
 
 
 
 
 

 
Hey Kenny,
 
I'm back on Snow Leopard! Install went alright and everything runs much, much smoother. I can't remember for which plug-in's sake it was that I first upgraded, but I regretted it not long after and ever since. So I can confirm - you're much wiser than I am, sticking with it! :)



As for the rest, maybe it's my decade working customer support and workforce management, but I have a tough time being as accommodating as others appear to be. 
 
I've worked for small and big companies, and for companies with bad reputation, but accountability has always been the corner stone of work ethics and business. And because it was so crucial for me when dealing with my customers, it's also important when I am in the customer's seat.
 
I've been swamped, with phones ringing and e-mails flooding my inbox and instant messages filling my screen, and my supervisor asking updates every hour. It never occurred to me that I could let slip any of that.
 
In fact, I've learned what accountability meant BECAUSE I was swamped. I had to learn and prioritize and communicate, and follow through and keep in touch. I had to diffuse those situation before things escalated. And communication goes a long way.
 
So while I would never condone insulting the individuals who work for Cakewalk, it does not seem unfair to voice one's concerns and opinions about the company. 
 
And then again, I'm also the first to give praises, and very vocal in my support.

Hi Rain ,
It's good to talk with you again
I'm happy for you that you went back to Snow Leopard on your MacBook Pro also that it is working out for you .
Over the past few years I have seen a few of your posts where you mentioned that you wanted to go back to it as you OS ...
Now if you want to you can put Dimension Pro back on it ...I love having Dimension Pro available on my MacBook .
As far as me being Wise ...I don't know about that one ... I'm more of a survivor 
 
 
It may come off a little odd about what I'm gonna say but in a way I need to say it ...
Since November of last year I pretty much focused on using my Win 10 PC about 95 % of the time ....
It was good that I did that only because I was able to attempt to learn as much as I could concerning  SPlat ...
I have no problem admitting  that as I get older I'm not always as eager to sit down and do my homework when it comes to learning how to do new workflow things as it relates to using a computer ...
Oddly enough when it comes to playing and learning new things on my Axe my attitude is bring it on ...
I feel energized when I learn new things on the guitar ...
 
Real quick , what ended up happening was I started getting burnt out because of all the workflow enhancements I was attempting to learn ...Win 10 wasn't helping either ...I was grateful that I have a lot more horsepower over there than I have on my Mac's ...the thing is That Win 10 OS has never given me a moment of Peace ..
When it did give me a small taste of Peace it was always short lived ..
 
To put it as bluntly as I can , as great as Win 10 ran when it was behaving , I always felt as if I was living in the middle of Times Square 24 7 .
I'm more of a quiet  introvert type of person that enjoys working from my center when I'm doing Music ..
Online that plays out a whole lot different ..I'm somewhat more of a gregarious  a$$clown
When it comes to doing music I'm not looking to be distracted by a bunch of things constantly competing for my attention ... 
My general point is , as humble as a MacBook running Snow Leopard might appear to someone else ...
I have found for myself personally that this little guy I'm typing on right now feels like I'm in a safe place where I want to be ..it's not Times Square 24 7w all the distractions
It's more Like a little cabin or a guest house on a nice little private road where I can just kick back and let my guard down ...
I don't know why , but every time I use this thing I get something done ..wish I could say the same for my supposed other rigs ...
 
As far as every thing you have said about your work ethic and customer service experiences ..
Yes, I have been there myself ..a lot of what you described in your post reminds me very much of all the years I have worked at NYC 's 48 th st Music row ...I miss them days in a way ..always super busy ..good times ...and great people ...
 
I want you to know that I wasn't talking about you or even anyone in particular when I was  rapping about peoples expectations or how they relate to how Cakewalk is handling the whole SONAR on a Mac thing ...
 
This may explain exactly where I'm coming from as far as why I express myself the way I do ....
A lot of people don't get me ...I'm OK w it ...my chosen method is music , yet in this case I have to use words.
 
The music I have loved the most has always been larger than life That quality is a quality that I seek in Music .
One of the coping mechanisms and tools that I use to quantify and find that quality in music is to understand that
certain elements of music that contains the implied larger than life  attributes has musical elements that have been performed and put together in such a way as to accentuate and showcase through the focusing and exaggeration of certain elements of a music performance ... 
 
As a citizen of the universe I have found it very helpful to poke fun at myself and my fellow man as a way of releasing the emotional gravitational pull that likes to masquerade as my opinions and personal biases ..
 
IMHO there is a certain amount of entanglement that can be released through a very subtle shift of perception 
 
 
Most people myself included have operated for so long using a neurological system that is in Groove clip mode.
At the very hint of what appears to be a form of stimulus that is entering a persons consciousness for a person that is in a neurological groove clip mode  ..
The persons brain and emotions will attempt to fill in all the missing information and data as a form of self preservation ..."Automatic Pilot Default Mode "  
 
Now I don't necessarily mean this statement as it would apply to a person feeling that they are dealing with a life or death situation ...
People that are confronted with life and death situations are running on way more cylinders than I am just sitting here typing this .
Also I have total confidence that when and if a life threatening situation was happening that even a world class couch potato could turn in a respectable time in a hundred yard dash if it meant the difference of having an a$$ to save or not having one
 
 
The neurological groove clips I'm talking about here is the resistance that presents itself by not  allowing new stimulus and new ways of thinking to enter in and replace the old that is no longer serving  the musician , the musicians music  or the persons goals
 
In this form due to the results they bring they have an attribute of being a negative neurological groove clip 
 
Having said that I would say it would be safe to say there is such a thing as a positive neurological groove clip
 
I'm certainly not an Einstein , yet atoms / ions do contain positive and negative attributes .
So does magnetism for a simple explanation ..North polarity , South Polarity   
 
What if I was to tell you that a very simple musical tool we all use holds the key to understanding and unlocking  
the the cell door that holds the neurological groove clips in a cell of stagnation.
Unlocking that cell will thereby empower a person granting that individual the ability to choose a different emotional mix ...
All it takes is the imagination to believe that as a musician you already hold the power to use your music on a personal level to also help you grow ....that also includes getting unstuck
 
It's as easy as this ...
When you are listening to a freshly recorded track you just recorded or even a song that is under construction have you not found it helpful to take your EQ at some point and sweep it ?
By that I mean picking a sharp Q and bumping up the volume and sweeping it through out the frequency spectrum with the goal of finding all the offending frequency's that are no longer serving your music and taking away from your musics full glory of expression  ...
Once the offending frequency's have been found they can be dialed back to taste and the whole song is better as a result of having done this ...the odds are in a persons favor that once they have gone through each track of their song project they may notice that all of a sudden the music is starting to breath more and all the clashing frequency's are no longer clashing ...    
I have come to the conclusion that this approach can and would work equally well in real life ...
Through personal experimentation I have found that once I have acknowledged that my thought or emotional processes are pulling me into the gravitational pull of a negative neurological groove clip it is then during the awareness stage that I'm finding myself going out of harmony w my center and my fellow man that it may be a good time to exaggerate  the Q factor on my  mental and emotional EQ and sweep the frequency range to find the offending frequency's ....
Having said all that it may be true that this is much easier said than done ...
It takes and open mind and practice for sure  ...
I put this out there for the people that have strong inclinations and a predisposition for ideas that include the concept that Music and life can be interdependent and that here is a strong element of Synergy at play when one chooses to acknowledge that the practice of learning music and how to engineer music can also help a person in other areas of their life ...
 
thank you all for listening ,
I would like to thank the academy for this Nobel Prize just kidding ..
 
i got on this whole thing because of all the different emotions that are in this thread concerning SONAR Alpha for Mac ....
honestly I did , that was the original motivation...
 
Kenny 
 
 

Rain
On the bright side - ever since I've first upgraded OSX on my MacBook Pro a few years ago, I've seen a steady decline in performance and usability. 
 
I'd been meaning to revert to 10.6 ever since last summer, but in order to be able to test Sonar, I needed a machine with a more recent OS, so I stuck with El Capitan (10.11) on the laptop. My DAW runs Mavericks (10.9) and I refuse to mess it up by upgrading (lesson learned).
 
As of today, I have no reason not to downgrade - who knows what OS will be required when/if Cakewalk finally release their Alpha version, anyway...
 
So it's back to Snow Leopard for this guy, thanks to Cakewalk! :)

Solution to trying new OSX versions - partition your system drive if it's big enough; you don't lose any data when creating partitions. 2 terabyte drive in my iMac and I have OSX 10.8.5 and OSX 10.9.5. Used to have OSX 10.10.2 but that was unstable for production work with PT and DP. BTW ElCrapitan is one of the worst versions of OSX to come down the line.

Rain
 
 
Firstly, no one here pretended that Cakewalk promised a Mac version. Cakewalk quite officially announced Sonar Alpha for Mac due out "this fall", to test the water. Everyone here understood that, and that is what was expected.
 
Secondly, accountability has got nothing to do with the size of the company, and neither does clarity. Though certainly less formal, this fall is no more vague than "next quarter".
 
The fact that you decide to treat the information as ultimately unreliable and choose to interpret it as "indefinite" is somewhat irrelevant.

No one compared Cakewalk to large multinationals. Whether you're a one-man operation or a small local business, accountability is crucial. Even individuals are held accountable by their bosses.
 
Yes, winter started a few days ago, on the 21st. As it does every year. The point being that, it did not sneak upon anyone by surprise. I have a tough time believing that no one at Cakewalk saw it coming.
 
As mentioned earlier, the problem is not that Cakewalk did not meet the deadline - and in this regard, the fact that they are a small company should certainly be taken into account. 
 
The fact that you don't see a communication problem does not mean that there isn't a problem. This may sound rude, but this not about YOU. 
 
It's about accountability, clarity and curtesy - in other words, professionalism.
 
Individuals, one-man operation, small and big companies all around the globe hold themselves up to such standards.
 
Unless the moral of the story really is that one shouldn't put too much stock into what Cakewalk says. But as I too have had some very good experiences as a Cakewalk customer, I refuse to regard them as anything less than professional. Thus, I'll say it again - I do believe they dropped the ball.
 
 

On your first point, my post wasn't aimed at you in particular, Rain, I am sorry if you took it that way.  As you state in your post, "this not about YOU."
 
It is about all of us, I suppose, and managing expectations.  Words and situations only hold the power that you bring to them.  
 
As to your other points, I guess others have said it better, but I think you put it well in the statement in bold above.
 
Have a Peaceful New Year, and I hope it brings you news of a Mac Sonar soon.

well I only came here for Mac version news.  I was a Sonar/Cakewalk lover back in the day, but when I moved off Windows (thank goodness) I had to move to something else...
 
I won't be dropping cash on a lifetime upgrade with no news.  And I probably won't subscribe should it ever come out now..
 
I'll stick with PT and Ableton.
 
Was looking forward to giving the Alpha a try... it might have soared on my 8 core 4.0Ghz i7 / 32GB 2400Mhz ram / PCIe flash m.2 drive hackintosh super machine...  happy new year!
 
 
 
 

jb101
 
When a company, particularly one as small as Cakewalk, gives a "date" as vague as "fall", then I take it as an indicator, not a firm date.  I do not plan my life round it.
 
Also, comparing Cakewalk to a large multinational is a little unfair, they do not have the same resources.
 

I get what you're saying and agree with most of it. But I disagree with the above. The above would be true if Cakewalk was owned by... well, Cakewalk. But they're not. They're owned by Gibson. Gibson certainly isn't the biggest company in the world, but they ain't exactly a mom and pop shop either. And given the price of their fine instruments vs what it actually costs to build one, I suspect they most certainly could scrounge up some R&D dollars they really wanted to.