• SONAR
  • Arpeggiators (p.2)
2017/03/03 04:21:54
sharke
Here's a short example of something I did with Sonar's arpeggiator bounced to MIDI and edited, as part of a project I'm working on at the minute. I gave the arpeggiator the same chords as the keyboard that's accompanying. After much editing and experimentation I ended up with something completely different from the basic arps, but they helped enormously in getting me started. Sorry for sound quality it sounds a bit weird, I never use Soundcloud because it always seems to do weird things to the sound IMO. 
 
https://soundcloud.com/sharke-1/arpexample
2017/03/04 20:27:15
declan
sharke
Here's a short example of something I did with Sonar's arpeggiator bounced to MIDI and edited, as part of a project I'm working on at the minute. I gave the arpeggiator the same chords as the keyboard that's accompanying. After much editing and experimentation I ended up with something completely different from the basic arps, but they helped enormously in getting me started. Sorry for sound quality it sounds a bit weird, I never use Soundcloud because it always seems to do weird things to the sound IMO. 
 
https://soundcloud.com/sharke-1/arpexample


There were some interesting bits in your arpexample (good job!) but it really does show Sonar's arp limitations.  I would never ask for an improvement as new feature request (CW has better thing to do) but after really checking out the various arps out there I realize that would be valuable.  I do have some old (& great) synths that I'd have to spend a few hundred on to upgrade because they don't allow midi output - and yes they have their own aps.

I'd always thought of arps as a tool for ideas at best, & that includes my Poly6 introduction to them in '83.  That did change with Omnisphere and after checking out Cthulhu and many others, I'm going to buy Kirnu Cream because I can make it work exactly like I want it to. 
 
But none of these programs visually display what you're actually doing (note length, velocity, note increments) at the same time, and it takes many screens & clicks to get it right.  It has been a great "listening" exercise compared to what I'm used to, and just getting it right quickly.
 
I don't do EDM and I'm not a keyboard player, but I do predict that arps will be making a comeback.
 
2017/03/04 20:56:15
sharke
I agree, the Sonar arp is very old fashioned and limited, and they'd probably be doing themselves a favor by updating it along with a host of other improvements they'd have to make to take some of the new user share away from DAW's like Ableton. Apart from Cthulhu, the only other arpeggiator which has really impressed me has been the one that comes with Trilian. It's a combination arp/step sequencer and you can edit the lengths of individual notes as well as join notes together. Very simple concept but a huge amount of flexibility. 
2017/03/04 21:36:45
declan
sharke
I agree, the Sonar arp is very old fashioned and limited, and they'd probably be doing themselves a favor by updating it along with a host of other improvements they'd have to make to take some of the new user share away from DAW's like Ableton. Apart from Cthulhu, the only other arpeggiator which has really impressed me has been the one that comes with Trilian. It's a combination arp/step sequencer and you can edit the lengths of individual notes as well as join notes together. Very simple concept but a huge amount of flexibility. 


Trilian is my 3nd favorite thing I've bought (and I'm a guitar player!), but using it in Omnisphere 2's arp changed the game.  The note increments are just sooo smooth.
 
I didn't think about it before, but Trilian users should be barraging Spectrasonics for an arp update, that they have the code for, just hanging around.  For some of the mind-boggling free updates Spectrasonics has done over the last 8-9 years, this one should be a no-brainer.
 
Forgive me Eric. 
2017/03/04 21:51:46
lawajava
About $50 and you can have complete control of arpeggiation and a lot of inspiration.

https://squaredheads.com/

It's called Nora.

See it working here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8LceZm7Zto
2017/03/05 09:26:54
declan
lawajava, thanks for the heads up about Nora - great gui, but I can't get it working in Sonar.  I got it going in Reaper immediately.
 
I've sent them an email and if they can help me with Sonar, I'm going to buy it.
2017/03/05 18:37:45
lawajava
declan
lawajava, thanks for the heads up about Nora - great gui, but I can't get it working in Sonar.  I got it going in Reaper immediately.
I've sent them an email and if they can help me with Sonar, I'm going to buy it.



declan - I use it all the time in Sonar Platinum.  Here are a few tips to get started.
 
1. Insert Nora as a softsynth on one track.  Ensure you have Enable Midi Out checked when inserting the track.
2. Insert a softsynth of any keyboard you'd like to try.
3. Route the input of the keyboard softsynth as originating from Nora.  "Nora 1 Midi Omni" is fine as an input.
4. Set input echo on for the keyboard softsynth track.  The Nora Midi track does not need to be on input echo.
 
Now, here's a trick. 
A. You can record your chord pattern (or draw it in the Piano Roll view which is actually better to ensure you have full long, whole note chord triads) actually on the keyboard softsynth track.  (Alternatively, and recommended if you have EZ Keys, you can make a long chord pattern (lots of chord changes with whole notes) within EZ Keys and drag the midi onto the softsynth keyboard midi track.
 
B. When you play back, since the chords are on the keyboard midi track you can hear how they sound as whole notes with that particular keyboard patch sound.
 
C. To get it going for Nora, hold the Control key down and drag the Midi clip from the keyboard softsynth Midi track onto the Nora Midi track.
 
D. To hear only Nora, go to the keyboad softsynth Midi track (which still has a copy of the Midi events), select the Midi events (or the whole track) and press K.  (Otherwise, you can to to the HUB tool and find the Mute tool and click that.  The point is, you want input echo on, but you want to mute the MIDI events on the keyboard track (but still have the option to hear them as whole notes when you want to by unmuting).
 
E. Now, at this point, if you hit play you won't hear anything from these two tracks because you haven't yet drawn anything into Nora.  If you open Nora, you can either start drawing notes in (you can have a loop set in Sonar and you can freely draw and immediately hear what happens in Nora), or you can also look at the left panel in Nora, open say the Arp folder, and drag any of the many patterns into the Nora screen and get that pattern to immediately take effect.  The things you draw (or drag) into the Nora screen influence how Nora plays the notes back from the chords  you've put onto the MIDI track in Nora.
 
This is just for starters.  Nora works great in Sonar.  Of course, if you play around with Nora you can then learn how to do much more with the pattern selections.  Nora, for example, includes a separate Harmony tool which is also slick.  The YouTube clip i posted above is an example of what can be done, and there's more.
 
I like Nora because of instead of having an arpegiattor take over once you click it on, and you feel like the arpegiattor is in control, Nora allows you to control the arpeggiator, so you're in control instead of the arp.  That said, built in arps in VSTs (especially like Omnisphere) are well suited to work within their own environment.
 
But for adding an arp, using an easy to use platform, to anything MIDI, Nora is a slick tool to have and use.

An easy to describe scenario is using Nora on strings. You can put down a chord pattern, apply Nora to it, and have a nice string accompaniment to your song.
2017/03/05 20:55:36
KHARMA
The NORA setup described above is exactly how I use it. You can pull any rhythmic chord progression into EZK and easily replace the rhythms with simple whole notes for use as NORA input. I work out the NORA pattern with a bar or two of that looping. Once I get it where I want it I turn on record for the NORA output track, turn off the loop, and record the arpeggiated pattern full length in Splat.

Oh and NORA also lets you edit velocities, which is a plus.
2017/03/05 23:54:21
declan
Thanks lawajava (that was a lot of typing), I got it working.  Now I'm going to have to really wrap my head around it.  Everything looks straight-forward, but it's time to dig into the manual.  
 
You mentioned strings, orchestral stuff is one of the main reasons I was looking at arps.  Thanks again.
 
Kharma, yeah the velocity, length - everything just looks familiar and easily edited.  So now I'm off to see what this thing can really do.  Thanks.
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