http://forum.cakewalk.com/CONFIRMED-Studio-One-3-Crossgrade-for-CW-Refugees-65-off-m3697418.aspx
 
The Black Friday deal was 50% off. For us Sonarian refugees, it's 65% - I've made the jump.

I have to say this S1 sounding different from Sonar is a very confusing topic. I have the same feel that everything sounds warm and awesome in sonar but S1 sounds thin and missing something? Its good in a different way but I like the way Sonar sounds. I have always wondered whether its just the GUI of both the daws making me feel this way? I feel very inspired while working in sonar though. Either due to the GUI or the sound engine. I did tried a few null tests and they don't null at all for some weird reason. I zoomed in the waveform and I could clearly see there are some differences. Hope someone does some extensive test on this.   

rmfegley
Yeah, track templates is a big deal to me. Also, I couldn't *intuitively* figure out how to freely configure a VST synth to receive MIDI from any track and output to any other track. Not saying it can't be done, I just couldn't figure it out completely by clicking around and testing it. That's kind of been my first test of something new, how much can I figure out to replicate my current work methods without a lot of deep dives into the documentation. Take lanes and comping seem similar, haven't dove into it deeply yet. Also, is there anything comparable to Aux tracks, or a way to create a submix track right in the track view?

TEMPLATES: S1 has a template function! Create a new song, set up everything the way you like. Then, click FILE | SAVE AS TEMPLATE - there are a couple of options, but then your template shows up in the startup window. Easy peasy. The templates were a big deal to me, but I appreciate the logic of how S1 creates folders and organizes the assets. I was worried there weren't going to be there either, but I found them by accident while saving a file. 

As for routing MIDI to one track from another, I'd ask why? If you're doubling up parts, then the S1 approach is for multi-instruments. If you haven't looked at them (and I've only played with them), you can basically create a multi preset of any combination of effects and instruments. You can set them up in parallel or serial (up to 5 splits). The layers and effect combinations are astounding (and they have some good presets to get you started on that).

Sending output to any track...if it's a synth, you should be able to just select the input of the synth. IF it's an audio track, just create a bus to send the audio to, and then create a new track and use the bus as the input.

I also made a rather startling discovery: you can drag/drop MIDI clips from SONAR to Studio One 3.5. Most of my projects are active MIDI files and I was content to keep working on old projects in SONAR. However, I do have some transitional projects that I was trying to find a way to move over without a lost of hassle. The drag drop method is fantastic. eg: I create an Omnisphere folder, create a track, select the instrument based on my notes, drag/drop all the MIDI files over to S1 in a second window (dual monitors here) and voila...track transfer is complete. Wash/rinse/repeat. And I'll need to make notes on plugs and busses, but it's so slick and I'm just super pleased about it. I did notice a couple of quirks: 1) You can drag drop from SONAR to S1, but you can't drag/drop from S1 to SONAR. 2) If you're using MIDI groove clips, you need to bounce them to a new full clip. The groove clips simply don't translate at all (even the first phrase is all screwed up - you have to bounce the). 

Anway...that's made a bad news week much better. So yay for that.

TEMPLATES: S1 has a template function! Create a new song, set up everything the way you like. Then, click FILE | SAVE AS TEMPLATE - there are a couple of options, but then your template shows up in the startup window. Easy peasy. The templates were a big deal to me, but I appreciate the logic of how S1 creates folders and organizes the assets. I was worried there weren't going to be there either, but I found them by accident while saving a file. 

 Project template is no replacement to track template. How do you insert a set of tracks from the template in the middle of the project. I get it you can start a project by loading your template. But that's not now track template work. You have absolute control over what you need to import when ever you want to. Correct me if that's possible in S1.

Let me say how it works for me. Some random evening while messing around with my fav synth patches I might end up playing some cool stuffs. So I record it. Then I Would like to add some pads and keys to it. 

I go to track templates and load my customized omnisphere  template - This template with 8midi tracks and 8 instrument audio tracks. All routed for multiple instances of omnisphere. All tracks names set right. All tracks routed to a synth buss. (All I have to do is two clicks and all right there.)

Now I will browse through some patches and add some layers of music. Now I feel like recording bass.

I load a bass template in just 2 clicks. I am good to go.

Some other day jugging through the same project. I feel I need to add some drums there. Again a two clicks will load up the SD with my customized drum presets all mixed to start with and routed to a drum bus. All with FX, track names, colors, track icon, folder everything as I wish in just 2 clicks. I am good to go.

The possibilities are enormous with track templates. Project template is a joke, most times I will endup deleting half of the tracks and keep changing the setup. I decide which Vsti or which kind of drum preset to add depending on the project. I decide whether to load SD or Addictive Drums or Battery or 5-6 types of SD presets I have made. I will deside that depending on the project. I cant add all of these to S1 project template and delete everything else later. I have to keep all of them until I decide. It's redundant. 

Jeff Evans
Yes, you can send bank and program change commands. See here:
 
https://support.presonus.com/hc/en-us/articles/210040493-MIDI-Bank-Program-Change-External-MIDI-Hardware-Devices-
 
It is the patch names that are not supported. i.e. instrument definitions. It does not worry me because if you are serious about using hardware synths you should know what patches you have loaded into any memory at any time. One should not in fact have the same sounds in your synths all the time.  You should be loading up many banks/sounds into the synth memories and auditioning and using sounds from any other stored banks you may have. e.g. My Roland JD800 only holds 64 patches but I have got like 3000 sounds for it.

Tha's what I understood, I just wanted confirmation. It isn't a problem for me as I haven't turned on my JV-2080 in months.
 
Regards,
Dan

I've been a Cakewalk user since Pro Audio 6 circa 1989 so had to think long and hard about which DAW I would migrate/defect to in light of recent developments (or lack of, moving forward...) Reaper, Cubase, Mixcraft, Podium, Fruity Loops, Ableton Live and Bitwig all have their strengths and weaknesses certainly but it's Studio One which strikes me as the one DAW closest in lineage, feel and methodology to SONAR. The bundled instruments in S1 are not on a par with SPLAT but they do have a dedicated sampler (Presence XT) which ships with > 13 gig of high quality sounds which are easily on a par with Kontakt's factory content. Most of the functionality is drag and drop including a very intuitive groove quantise window for MIDI and AUDIO which is a joy to use. Despite what many in these forums have stated to the contrary, I feel that S1's MIDI editing capabilities match those of SONAR (or are at least sufficient for my MIDI oriented needs, despite their being no MIDI event list view). It even has a 'Transform' tool and multi-track PRV which are spookily similar to those found in SONAR. On the down side, there is nothing to match the console emulation and aesthetic delights of the Cakewalk Pro Channels/Console view alas. However, all that said, the real game changer for me is the dual buffer settings that Presonus allow you to set up on installation. I don't know the technicalities behind this approach but long story short, you ramp up buffer size for mixing and ramp down for recording and it's done automatically 'under the hood' via hardware low latency monitoring (if your sound card supports it) or software low latency monitoring, otherwise. Unlike SONAR, I can have very large projects open with loads of tracks, FX, VSTs and tracks with no crackling or popping or prohibitive latency when either recording or mixing. Studio One strikes me as the DAW that Cakewalk were never quite able to bring to fruition.

I think I'm going to go this route as well. The crossgrade price is just amazing and I've been playing with the demo and liking it a lot. It has a few features I am really liking (arranger track!)
 

emeraldsoul
Sylvan, I am reluctant to say this, but I've done dozens of Sonar projects, from 8.5 to Artist. I have mostly used 3rd party plugins and VI's and Kontakt.
 
I have only done a few little projects in Studio 1, which I just hopped on three days ago. Same boat as you . . .
 
. . . except my ears are telling me that I like Studio 1's sound a little better. What you are hearing as a "lack of low end" in S1,  I'm hearing as "clearer and cleaner up top" . . . interesting, huh?
 
If there really is no difference in "summing engines" - then perhaps there IS a difference in how the different DAW's react to and interact with third party plugins.
 
In other words, maybe an instance of a Superior Drummer or a particular QL Spaces reverb is handled better by a given DAW, and therefore sounds better or different in S1 than it did coming out of Sonar.
 
Or vice versa.
 
One can discuss "parity" in summing engines, but there's still the variables in what is being summed. Just an idea.
 
Whenever I mix Sonar (I only have Artist) I continually feel as if I'm fighting to keep a layer of cheesecloth off of the speakers. Something between me and the sound. I haven't noticed this as of yet with S1.
 
good luck!
-Tom

 
Thanks for your input Tom. All opinions are most welcome. I just want to point out that in my tests I am not using any plugins. No plugins are being used. Just raw tracks and fader movements. Again, I used absolutely no plugins. I know that would skew the results, so that is why I did not use any plugins.
 
Anyone else who is checking into this at all, please remember that I did not use any plugins in my testing. Studio One forced my to use their Mix Tools plugin on one of the tests for me to flip the phase on a bottom snare track (real acoustic drums, not soft synth, not MIDI,) because there is no phase flipping built in like SONAR. In my new tests I will not use a bottom snare mic so I won't have to use anything to flip phase in S1. So there will be nothing but three raw tracks simply being summed with no panning, no plugins.
 
I will share my results when I do this new test, which will not have any plugins at all.
 
I am a very busy engineer so I don't know when I will have time to do it. Hopefully this week. I have deadlines I am up against.
 
Please know that I am not being facetious at all and I really do appreciate you chiming n on this. I just want to be able to know that I am beyond a shadow of a doubt very clear that I am not using plugins in my tests. I am not a very smart person, but smart enough to know not to use plugins.

S1 and VSTs do'nt seem to agree, is fine with vst3, any workaround?
I have lots of VSTs and a real hassle to remove them as everything is working just fine in SPLAT.
Could of course let the 64-bis instal of S1 blacklist them all, but that means a lot of restarting!
(I am using studio one 3 professional which is supposed to support VSTs as well as VST3s)

For my test I was given a multi track session recorded by Roland here in Australia.  They hired an excellent engineer and the raw tracks sound beautiful.  It is a lesson in mic placement and also musicianship as well.  All you have to do push the faders up and you a get a beautiful sound.  With no plugins present.  It can be done.
 
I used only whole numbers on fader settings e.g. -7 db or -11 db etc.. I panned only LCR and ensured that in the C position the same pan law applied e.g. C=-3dB.  Check each DAW an ensure no processing of any kind on its stereo master buss.  I rendered out mixes from all 4 DAW's and then a listening test was conducted.  No idea which DAW was being presented in the speakers and also no idea when the switching took place either.  I got perfect nulls from any two meaning incredibly low level of any artefacts present.  This type of experiment requires precision detail in setting up each mix.  There is room for error.  As soon as someone hears not a perfect null it is like they jump on the situation and say hey Studio One sounds terrible.  It does not.  It sounds like a digital recording system, excellent.
 
VST"s are all fine with Studio One.  I have many.  It is matter of keeping your DLL files in one place and letting Studio One know the locations.  You do a complete scan on start up and it will find everything.  Then you uncheck that option so it does not scan on further start ups. Hence much faster start up time. I have both VST 2 and VST 3 versions. In some cases there are only VST 2 versions. They all work fine together.  In fact it is one of the easiest DAW's that works well with plugin installs.  With any change of DAW there is going to be some fiddling around getting your plugins to work inside your new DAW.  That is given. 
 
The whole buffer thing is now is amazing.  With thunderbolt interfaces working on a Mac I an getting like 1.5 mS input latency.  I am also seeing 16 sample buffer options now with some interfaces.  To be able to control input and output latencies is excellent.  It can manage two different interfaces as well on a Mac for input and output signal flow.  There are new low latency monitoring modes now as well.  It pays to read up on all that stuff with those great tutorials on how that all works.  Studio One with its own Quantum interface has the lowest latency on the planet at present I think.