I have Sonar configured to use external MIDI clock provided by a Korg Kronos.  The Kronos generates patterns with its internal Karma system, and I want the M:B:T timing in Sonar to match that used by Karma.
 
In Sonar, the recording waits (displaying Waiting for Midi Sync) until the pattern starts on the Kronos.
 
But the timing in Sonar does not match the Kronos. I'm running the Kronos pattern at a tempo of 120, but if the tempo in Sonar is at 90, the metronome and M:B:T ruler will operate at a tempo of 90.
 
Shouldn't the tempo come from the MIDI clock? As I understand it, a MIDI Clock is related to the tempo as there are 24 MIDI clocks per quarter note. I verified that the MIDI clock generated by the Kronos does follow the tempo. If the Kronos is set to a tempo of 40.0, there is 62mS between clocks. At a 3X tempo of 120.0, there is 20mS between clocks (1/3).
 
Why is Sonar using the internal tempo when set to external clock? How do I get it to use the MIDI tempo?
 
 

I checked the help file for MIDI Sync with Sonar as a slave.  Two things in the help file are questionable:
 
First in step 4 it says "4. Make sure that your MIDI interface is highlighted in the Inputs list, and click OK."
 
The use of "highlighted" is puzzling. Normally, MIDI devices that are checked are active, and those that are not checked are not active. It is possible to left-click on a MIDI interface and it will highlight, but that is a non-persistent setting. The next time the Preferences dialog is opened, the "highlight" is no longer present. 
I'm assuming that this statement should read "Make sure that your MIDI interface is selected in the Inputs list, and click OK."
 
Second in step 5 it says "Click the Transmit MIDI Sync button in the Sync module to use the MIDI Sync clock source."
 
The help for the Transmit MIDI Sync button on the Sync Module says "Transmit MIDI Sync to external MIDI devices, such as drum machines, stand-alone MIDI hardware sequencers, and sequencers built into MIDI keyboards (only available when using the Internal or Audio clock)."   If Sonar is the slave, the external device is providing the MIDI sync to Sonar, so Sonar will not be sending it to an external device.
If step 5 is correct, it is highly non-intuitive, and this section needs a lot of additional explanation.
 
I am assuming that the correct setting in the Sync Module is to set the Sync Type control to "MIDI Sync" and the state of "Transmit MIDI Sync" doesn't matter.
 
I tried clicking it anyway, but the basic problem of Sonar not following the MIDI Sync for tempo still exists.

Has anyone successfully synced Sonar as a slave to an external device providing MIDI sync?

When the DAW is acting as a slave then it must be set to work from the incoming midi clock. Sounds like you have not done that and it is still free running under its own internal sync. Can Sonar slave to midi clock or MTC not sure. If it is MTC then you are not in luck. If it is Midi clock then yes it should work.
 
Why don't you do this the other way around and make Sonar the master, get it to send Midi clock to the Kronos and put Kronos into slave mode. It still should work as long as Kronos can be put into slave mode that is.
 
 
 
 

Sonar is using the incoming MIDI clock. When I press record the time display changes to "Waiting for MIDI Sync" until I start the instrument playing. However the tempo in Sonar is not locked to the MIDI clock.
 
To test whether Sonar is using the MIDI clock tempo, or its own, I intentionally set the Sonar project tempo to 120, while the MIDI clock tempo is 90.
I record 4 measures of audio based on the pattern from the source keyboard at tempo 90. At the end of the recording, the Now marker is at the start of measure 5, which is where it should be. But the recorded audio clip is about 6 1/3 measures long, which corresponds to the tempo 120 in Sonar. Also the Sonar metronome runs at 120, which shows it is not locked to MIDI sync.
 
What steps are necessary to get Sonar to use the MIDI clock tempo as the project tempo? 
My test demonstrates that they are not locked currently. If I set the tempo in Sonar to match the keyboard, expect it will drift out of sync eventually. Isn't the whole idea of external sync supposed to prevent simply matching the tempo settings and hoping they don't drift too much?
 
Making Sonar the timing master may be the only solution. It is less convenient, because the tempo for each program is part of the program settings. If the instrument is changed to enable external clock, then the tempo disappears and says EXT. Changing the mode back and forth is inconvenient because it is buried deep in menus.
 

That is weird regarding incoming midi clock because from where I come from everytime I have told something to lock to incoming midi clock the tempo of the slave device is locked to the tempo of the device sending the midi clock. That is the whole idea of it actually. Anything else is pretty useless. You must be doing something wrong in terms of Sonars incoming midi clock settings. I don't use Sonar so I am not too familiar with all that.
 
As you say making Sonar the master and Kronos the slave might be the best option. When I was using Sonar BTW (Producer 8.5) and I was trying to do things like this I always found it was better as the master, it did not like being the slave so much.

BPM (beats per minute) is midi sync. However, audio is HMS (hours minutes seconds). So if you record 1 minute of audio in Sonar at the start of the timeline it is always going to be 1 minute of audio regardless of what the tempo is set at. If you want the timeline for audio in Sonar to match bars of BPM in Sonar it's probably a lot more intuitive to use Sonar as the master and create your tempos in Sonar and have the Kronos be the slave. This way, your audio in Sonar will look correct in regards to the grid set by BPM.
 
Another inconvenience of setting Sonar as the slave to midi sync is always having to press play in Sonar to start listening for midi sync. Instead with Sonar set to the master, you can transmit not only the midi sync tempo, but SPP (song position pointer) for Kronos. Your Kronos sequence should follow correctly when starting Sonar in the middle of the song and you will not always be having to press play in Kronos to start listening. One thing to note, you will need to manually set time signatures in Kronos to match the Sonar timeline or again BPM will be off between Sonar and the Kronos.

I've had success syncing to an external keyboard - a Yamaha DGX-230. I did it just for fun. It's been awhile though.
 
Here's the basic setup:
 
On Sonar, make sure transmit midi sync and mtc are on. Most of the fun is on the keyboard side.
 
On the keyboard, I enabled ExtClock, KbdOut, StyleOut, SongOut. The means that the keyboard will follow the midi clock from Sonar, any keys I hit are sent via midi, built-in Songs played on the keyboard are sent as well, and any Style Accompaniments too.
 
The main reason for following Sonar's clock is that data is recorded in Sonar according to it's tempo - not someone else's.. That's not a problem for most performers since this is the normal way of doing things - but not necessarily so for a Digital Piano playing a built-in song file.
 
A Digital Piano can play by itself and doesn't need a clock. If you were to record it playing a song (or accompaniment) on it's own without setting it to use an external clock, Sonar records it at Sonar's own tempo, not the Piano's (which is following its song/accompaniment's embedded tempo). Even if Sonar and the Piano were set to the same tempo value, it will likely drift, and if the tempo's are not the same on both devices, you'll know it. It will sound correct if played back in Sonar at the Sonar's recorded tempo, but since it's not at the midi piece's original tempo, bringing the recorded piece up in the PRV or the Staff view will show the notes at the wrong MBT's. Basically a jumble.
 
The trick is to set the Digital Piano to use an external clock. Simply set Sonar's tempo to the same tempo the Piano would use to play a piece (although you can make it play faster or slower by changing Sonar's tempo - to your taste). Hit record, Wahoo! - you've just made a copy of an internal song. 
 

 

just curious if got sync working timg11 regardless of which route you went with Sonar as master or slave?

Bump, very good question!!
 
TimG,
 
I could not get this to work with a external drum machine (alesis sr16 I think) back in X1.  I had to set Sonar's tempo to match drum machine and then nudge the midi data time with the "event" tool (I'm not at my daw, so event tool may be wrong name).  I believe I used the same approach as you (Sonar as slave and drum machine as master).  I'll try this again on X3 if I can get the time.