2017/09/22 01:25:55
Jeff Evans
Well Bats I do respect your opinion because you create good music and produce it very well.  What compressor are you using in terms of hardware.  Have you go a VST that is based on that same compressor.  One thing I do think is that a lot of plug-in compressors actually all sound different. Not in tone so much but more so in the amplitude envelope. 
 
I have just got the Klanghelm DC8C and I must say it one of the nicest plug-in compressors I have used.  But I am really into transparent compression and this is definitely one of those.  Another real nice one is the API2500. 
2017/09/22 01:57:33
timidi
I use to have a lexicon mpx1. It died a couple years ago. I just can't get the same open-ness out of plugs. I tend to chalk it up to some sort of summing, as I would have the verb returns coming in thru a digital mixer. But then, that's digital. Hmm? But, for some reason I think I still get some sort of summing benefit through the digital mixer. Anyway, so I don't know if it's the analog reverb or digital summing/separation that sounds better. I will say that some of these reverb plugs sound amazing in isolation. but, once tracks start building up, they seem to turn muddy. I try to use delay instead anymore. So, yea, I like hardware reverb.
2017/09/22 04:27:48
Rbh
I use plugs 99% of the time in a mixing / recording environment. I rarely find myself using more than one reverb in the console - but individual instrument tracks might have a specialty effect on it. In a composing situation as well playing live - or just jamming with others in the studio I use hardware. Plenty of room for both depending on the situation. I have 4 lexicons , a tape echo and a TC delay2 that are patchable to guitar racks or an O2R that I use for a synth rack. There are some effects chains that are easier to achieve in hardware in my opinion.
2017/09/22 05:55:44
Jeff Evans
timidi
as I would have the verb returns coming in thru a digital mixer. But then, that's digital. Hmm? But, for some reason I think I still get some sort of summing benefit through the digital mixer. Anyway, so I don't know if it's the analog reverb or digital summing/separation that sounds better. 



You are not imagining this.  It is not the hardware reverbs that are sounding better but the digital summing in a digital mixer.  I can sum all internally inside Studio One but even when I send digital stems out to my digital mixer, with no processing applied anywhere just the summing in the mixer being used, the image sounds wider to me and slightly nicer.
 
This was also backed up by the engineer who engineered James Taylor's latest CD in an article in SOS. I thought I was imagining this until I read it from him too. 
 
As far as reverbs go ITB I can get them sounding as good if not better than any hardware reverb I had. Lately I have been working with the Waves H Reverb and just loving it.
2017/09/22 10:36:12
fireberd
I have a Lexicon VST reverb and I borrowed a Lexicon reverb unit for testing.  The physical Lexicon reverb unit was much better than the software version.
2017/09/22 14:26:13
batsbrew
hey jeff,
i've got a bunch of vst compressors.... the Klanghelm MJUC jr, Molot Limiter, Bootsy Density Mk II, fish fillets, W1 limiter, and i actually like the old sonar Sonitus single band compressor quite a bit....probably use it as much as anything else.
 
but my favorites are from the Waves group.
i like the C1, the L1, the Rennaissance comp, the Linear Phase Multiband, the Renn De-esser (which i guess still counts as a compressor!) and the DBX 160..... which brings to me to my favorite piece of kit, 
my old DBX MC6,
designed after the original 160a, it's in a table top format, to my ears, just sounds really good.
i've used this since i bought it back in the late 90's!
2017/09/22 14:28:40
batsbrew

i've previously used: art pro vla, warm audio wa2, a urei la 2a and 1176 clone, distressor (maybe my favorite i've used but don't own)
2017/09/22 15:43:41
Cactus Music
fireberd
I have a Lexicon VST reverb and I borrowed a Lexicon reverb unit for testing.  The physical Lexicon reverb unit was much better than the software version.




 
 
I was thinking if I have some time,, Hook up my Lexicon MX 200 as an insert hardware loop,  and then set up the Pantheon and set the paremeters as close as possible to the same setting. 
Then run a nice acoustic ballad through and compair. 
To me it would show if you overdue it. I think with the hardware you can push it higher and not trash the mix. 
2017/09/22 15:53:01
Jim Roseberry
In the end, hardware and software are just tools.
There are advantages to both hardware... and software.
Hardware by its very nature is "immediate".  
There are knobs/faders/buttons/etc that you can simply reach out and tweak.
 
I'll use Line-6's Helix as an example... as it's available in both Hardware (Floor, LT, and Rack) and Software (Native).
Some folks think that the hardware version of the Helix sounds better than the Native version.
Often, these folks are comparing hardware vs. native... using a cheap audio interface to run Helix Native.
When you break it down, that's not surprising.  The Hardware version has a quality front end that was designed specifically for DI electric guitar.  It has low noise-floor, wide dynamic range (to avoid clipping), and the impedance is matched for this specific purpose.
 
It's the same with top-tier hardware reverbs.
Those algorithms are well designed... and the box as a whole is designed/tweaked to work well as a whole.
 
With plugins, the quality is not just about the algorithms... but is subject to the user's front/back end.
A cheap audio interface isn't going to have A/D D/A (or analog circuits) equal to those in a $10,000 outboard processor.
 
More expensive gear generally has significantly lower noise-floor.
On one track, it may be hard to hear the difference.
When spread across 24-48 simultaneous tracks, it can be a HUGE difference.
It's literally like pulling a veil of noise off the audio...
 
In today's world, most folks strike a balance; using select high-quality hardware on the front-end (while recording)... and using plugins for mixing.  You get the best of both worlds (hardware and software).
2017/09/22 20:32:04
Jeff Evans
fireberd
I have a Lexicon VST reverb and I borrowed a Lexicon reverb unit for testing.  The physical Lexicon reverb unit was much better than the software version.

 
All that shows, and I don't doubt that was what was heard is the plug-in was not a nice as the hardware.  Reverse the situation.  How about a reverb plug-in that costs maybe $500 or more and as Jim also correctly points out an audio interface that is real quality at the front and back end compared to a hardware reverb that costs a similar amount (to the plugin) the result will easily be the other way around.
 
Pantheon was never all that great either.  There are far better sounding reverb plug-ins around these days. 
 
Tell you where one spot where hardware has not really been matched and that is with a quality VU meter.  Despite some really excellent plug-in VU's they still don't move exactly the same way. They don't rise up the same and they don't fall back the same and they don't bounce either. I suspect this is actually a very complex task to achieve and they so far have only gone part of the way.  The Klanghelm VU is one of the closest though. Great for level.  Ballistics tell you other stuff though and real VU's have got it in spades in that area. 
 
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