Jeff Evans

timidi
as I would have the verb returns coming in thru a digital mixer. But then, that's digital. Hmm? But, for some reason I think I still get some sort of summing benefit through the digital mixer. Anyway, so I don't know if it's the analog reverb or digital summing/separation that sounds better. 

You are not imagining this.  It is not the hardware reverbs that are sounding better but the digital summing in a digital mixer.  I can sum all internally inside Studio One but even when I send digital stems out to my digital mixer, with no processing applied anywhere just the summing in the mixer being used, the image sounds wider to me and slightly nicer.
 
This was also backed up by the engineer who engineered James Taylor's latest CD in an article in SOS. I thought I was imagining this until I read it from him too. 
 
As far as reverbs go ITB I can get them sounding as good if not better than any hardware reverb I had. Lately I have been working with the Waves H Reverb and just loving it.

good to know I'm not alone. Thanks Jeff
 

Bats Brew - you're the only other person I've heard mention the MC6 - I bought one  a couple years ago and liked it so much that I searched for and found a second just to have on hand. I've recently kept one dedicated to a bass rig..... I think they're a great front end for both guitar / bass into amps as well as my DAW. I really wish they would re-introduce this in a pedal format.

Jeff Evans
This was also backed up by the engineer who engineered James Taylor's latest CD in an article in SOS. I thought I was imagining this until I read it from him too. 
 

The wife and I are friends with JT's live FOH engineer Barry Damron.
Not sure if he's the one mentioned in the SOS article...
Barry is a great engineer... and also an excellent drummer.

Hi Jim no it was Dave O'Donnell.  And he talks about the fact that bringing stems out of the DAW and summing them digitally gave a wider image with more depth which is weird considering.  So summing mixers in the analog domain are not the only things that can do this apparently.  Digital mixers can as well. 
 
That experiment I did with SmallSToneFan where we compared OTB analog summing to internal summing proved to be impossible in the end to tell the difference, yet with the digital mixer it is way more obvious.

I've had this argument too many times, and we ALL know that
Opinions are like Buttholes...everybody has one.  What everyone does
NOT have is COMMON SENSE.  I don't care what ANYBODY says,
they are NOT going to give you "The same sound" of a $10,000 hardware unit
in a $50 plugin.  Sorry...never going to happen. 

They talk about "Circuit modeling" and blah blah blah.  You are NEVER EVER
going to get the "real sound" of hardware in a plugin.  There is an EFFECT
that takes place within the wiring, tubes, circuits, and transformers of a 
HARDWARE UNIT that CANNOT be replicated with a "Software" plugin.
Recording Studios and Movie Studios would STOP buying HARDWARE if that were the case...
BUT THEY DON'T!!! As a matter of fact they are STILL ordering HUGE consoles and
$10,000 compressors and Limiters, etc!

WHY?  

THE SOUND!!!  

They wouldn't invest a MILLION DOLLARS into a console if they could
"do the same" with a $50 plugin...sorry...that's just COMMON SENSE!

I'm with the OP.  NO BUSINESS is going to "give you" their "secret weapon" for
PENNIES that they paid THOUSANDS for.  You're not going to get the "same" summing
and analog "sound" of an SSL 4000 or 9000 Console in "software" format.  NOT GOING
TO HAPPEN.  SSL would be OUT OF BUSINESS.  HARRISON would be OUT OF BUSINESS.
NEVE would be OUT OF BUSINESS. API would be OUT OF BUSINESS.  Trident would be OUT OF BUSINESS.
Maag would be OUT OF BUSINESS.  The list goes ON AND ON.  And you wouldn't see producers
diligently searching for "Special Consoles and hardware" if they could just "model one" and do it for 
pennies, rather than hundreds of thousands, and you wouldn't see RACK UPON RACK UPON RACK of
HARDWARE UNITS, all "patched in" in Major Studios...THINK ABOUT IT!  They would just buy high end I/O
units and be done if it were "the same".

These guys are SALESMEN.  They will tell you "exact modeling"...etc.
They are out to SELL product - that is all.  And they PAY for BIG NAMES for "endorsements" and for
"ads" featuring BIG NAMES to get you to BUY so that they can "make money", not only
off the BIG GUY, but ALSO off of the LITTLE GUY...not because "it's the same"!   

I'm not saying you can't, or won't, get "Great results" in the box, BUT, it will NEVER EVER be the same as
the PHYSICAL HARDWARE, because you simply can't "model" what they REALLY do, and what REALLY happens,
in a HARDWARE UNIT.  You can get a binary proximity match, but it will not be, or sound, "identical" - EVER.
As Jim said...QUALITY of what's going in and coming out make a HUGE difference, and THAT is ALL dependent
on HARDWARE!

Let the bashing begin...because I know everyone wants to believe that their "Plugin" sounds every bit as good
as "the hardware".  Common sense and REALITY says...NOPE.  

Excellent rant and I can only agree... For me, though, well, I simply can't tell the difference...

CCLarry
I am fortunate enough to own a Waldorf Wave (the big one), a Linntronics Memorymoog (it works all the time!), a Synthi AKS and a DSI OB6.  They sound totally huge compared to the VSTs.  I agree that a $200 plug in is never going to give you the sound of a $4000 Eventide box.  I figure whatever they are selling in plugin format, has to be a tiny subset of the big box.  Otherwise the big boxes would totally disappear.  My Sweetwater Engineer says they still sell a bunch of the big boxes, though it is obviously down.  
 
Another factor to consider, the 500 series modules are hot commodities.  What are they?  Preamps, EQs, Compressors...If a Neve plugin gave you the sound of a 500 box, why would anyone buy the 500?
 

Most of your rant was easy to agree with but a few points do come to mind. First off, the OP was talking reverbs specifically but the thread has kind of morphed into all plugins vs all hardware. That's no bodies fault but I think its worth pointing out that when you break it down into hardware type, you find certain things that software is able to replicate fairly well and other things that software can't seem to come close to pulling off IMO.
 
For example I've personally got no complaints about the results I get from software eq. And I defy anyone to tell the difference between a DX7 and an FM8 playing the same patch in a blind listening test.
 
On the other hand, I fail to understand why anyone bothers to use any kind of software console emulator. I've experimented a bit with them but I've still never heard one that imparted any meaningful improvement, or even difference, in the sound.
 
Like I said, good rant and I mostly agree. But then at the end you added this bit:

cclarry
 
Let the bashing begin...because I know everyone wants to believe that their "Plugin" sounds every bit as good
as "the hardware".  Common sense and REALITY says...NOPE.  

This to me is an entirely different argument than does software faithfully replicate hardware. Getting a software 1176 to sound and behave exactly like a hardware 1176 is one thing and I would agree you'll probably never get it truly exact. Of course to be fair, comparing one hardware 1176 to another hardware 1176 isn't going to exact either.
 
But like I said, to me 'sounds every bit as good' is a different argument entirely. On the face of it, this argument would suggest that one simply cannot achieve world class results any other way than using hardware. That's not a bet I'd ever place money on.
 
In fact I'd place money on the opposite. Put a rank amateur weekend warrior in Abby Road with stems and put <Insert world class engineer name> in front of a well stocked computer with the same stems and I would bet money the world class engineer will produce results that are not only 'every bit as good' but more likely worlds better than what comes of Abby Road at the hands of the weekend warrior.
 
Hardware/software only gets you so far. At the end of the day, you either have the talent to bring the goods or you do not.
 
 

JohanSebatianGremlin
On the other hand, I fail to understand why anyone bothers to use any kind of software console emulator. I've experimented a bit with them but I've still never heard one that imparted any meaningful improvement, or even difference, in the sound.
 

Glad to see I am not on my own in this regard...

Me too on the all the emulators.  I find it mostly puts a haze on the sound.  When I have used it (seldom), most of the time I take it off the next time I visit the mix.