• SONAR
  • Haas effect - Sonar track delay? (p.6)
2017/02/09 10:24:04
Bristol_Jonesey
I once lost all of my Channel Tools presets. They eventually came back but I'm not sure when/how.
2017/02/09 10:24:21
Bristol_Jonesey
Duplicate post
2017/02/09 11:01:43
amiller
Bristol_Jonesey
I once lost all of my Channel Tools presets. They eventually came back but I'm not sure when/how.




I was just curious about why some were not showing up.
2017/02/09 11:21:46
eltonechris
To get the best professional widening effect its probably best to not just use the Haas effect (delay one side as discussed here) but also to alter the tuning, formant and random timing as well on the delayed side. Here is an example of how I do it, but it needs Sonar version with Melodyne. It also sounds less cancelled and comb filtered when collapsed to mono.
 
1. Clone  the track
2. Pan one track full left and other full  right.....you can alter this to taste later
3. On the R track add sonar channel tools
4. Set channel tools to stereo input mode and set delay R to around 30mS. Set both sliders far right
5. Enable melodyne on R track clip by selecting clip and picking Region FX - Melodyne
6. In melodyne select all. 
7. In melodyne Edit, Add Random Deviations- Pitch Drastic
8. In melodyne Edit Random Deviations - Timing Drastic
9. In melodyne use formant tool to lower formant a little
10. Bounce the clip to render the changes.
11. Pan and volume balance as required. Also as you have effectively spliot the track you can add different effects to left and right if required.
 
a little long winded I know but you soon get used to it. What has been done here is L is untouched, R is delayed , then random tuning, random timing added and formant slightly changed. This give a wide effect with a double tracking sound.
 
Let me know if it worked for you :)
 
Hope helps.
 
Chris.
2017/02/10 15:04:07
jimkleban
Does anyone have an audio MIX link that demonstrates the impact of the HAAS effect in a mix?  Like a before and after.  I think this would be helpful to folks to hear exactly what effect this impacts to audio.
 
 
2017/02/10 15:45:29
sharke
I'm not a huge fan of the Haas effect. I know it's a quick and easy way to stereoize a mono instrument but I'm rarely pleased with the results. In the first place I can never find a "sweet spot" delay time which sounds acceptable to my ears in mono (and I try them all within the generally accepted range) and even when listened to in stereo, it sounds weird to me almost in an eye-watering kind of way, because the two sides don't sound balanced (i.e. the side which sounds first sounds the loudest). I've got a few favorite techniques for stereoizing that sound much better to me and are far more mono compatible:
 
1) Subtle use of a stereo chorus or flanger, with settings like delay and feedback low enough so that they don't color the sound too much, and modulation rate set to slow so that it's not too distracting
2) A micro pitch shifter - the SoundToys one is excellent, as is the one on the Eventide UltraChannel plugin
3) Also pitch related, the xln RC-20 retro color plugin has a tape wobble feature which creates gorgeous stereo when you flip the stereo switch and set the wobbling to a barely noticable minimum. It also has a width control, although I prefer to do stereo narrowing and panning with Flux's free StereoTool plugin. 
4) The Waves PS22 stereo maker - it distributes frequencies evenly between left and right in a wave pattern which collapses perfectly to mono. I like this one on things like acoustic guitar.
 
2017/02/10 16:01:49
amiller
sharke
I'm not a huge fan of the Haas effect. I know it's a quick and easy way to stereoize a mono instrument but I'm rarely pleased with the results. In the first place I can never find a "sweet spot" delay time which sounds acceptable to my ears in mono (and I try them all within the generally accepted range) and even when listened to in stereo, it sounds weird to me almost in an eye-watering kind of way, because the two sides don't sound balanced (i.e. the side which sounds first sounds the loudest). I've got a few favorite techniques for stereoizing that sound much better to me and are far more mono compatible:
 
1) Subtle use of a stereo chorus or flanger, with settings like delay and feedback low enough so that they don't color the sound too much, and modulation rate set to slow so that it's not too distracting
2) A micro pitch shifter - the SoundToys one is excellent, as is the one on the Eventide UltraChannel plugin
3) Also pitch related, the xln RC-20 retro color plugin has a tape wobble feature which creates gorgeous stereo when you flip the stereo switch and set the wobbling to a barely noticable minimum. It also has a width control, although I prefer to do stereo narrowing and panning with Flux's free StereoTool plugin. 
4) The Waves PS22 stereo maker - it distributes frequencies evenly between left and right in a wave pattern which collapses perfectly to mono. I like this one on things like acoustic guitar.
 


Actually, I started this thread because I wanted to try out the Haas effect to place an instrument in a specific place in the sound stage.  I did not want to use it to simply widen the stereo field, or to use your phrase, "stereoize a mono instrument."  In other words, I wanted to try using the Haas effect instead of using the standard pan knobs which effect the volume of the tracks not the timing. 
 
The Haas effect, with delays values LESS than 1 millisecond, can be used for panning your track to wherever you want it in the sound stage.  It works surprising well.  Above 1 millisecond and localization of the track begins to sound strange.
 
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