200bpm
I found an option under midi for sound on sound.  It doesnt change the visual behavior of overdub, the midi is still written to a separate clip on top, but they will both play.  You have to bounce to clip to combine them into one midi clip.

so then it does work the same as it does in my video ?
That's the way ive always done it.
 

kennywtelejazz
Enjoyed your video Chuck , it helped me with setting up timeline markers / loop points for punching in on the fly ....

Thanks Kenny

Thanks for the tips.  I've got it now.
 
Still trying to figure out the nuances of drawing/dragging notes around in the midi view, but I have been able to get some fairly complicated midi drumming done.

I just found this thread and wanted to add my 2 cents.  
 
I wanted to accomplish something simple today, which is to loop record to a single MIDI track with Addictive Drums and a physical MIDI controller.  All I can say is: What an extremely un-intuitive and negative experience.  All I want to do is loop record to assemble a single MIDI track with the drums.  Instead I ended up with my creativity stopped in its tracks and considering uninstalling SONAR and moving to another DAW.  
 
I always try to stay positive on posts but today I really am frustrated because I decided to pay the $200 for lifetime updates and there are still just so many MIDI things that are buggy or broken.  I am running the latest Sonar version and I am very knowledgeable about computers and so please understand I'm not some random novice user who hasn't read the instructions.  
 
I encountered the following problems in an 30-minute long session:
- Sonar created new takes for each pass regardless of what settings I had in preferences
- If I turn off my USB MIDI controller in an open session and then turn it back on again, even though Sonar sees it as a device and it can be selected as input, the tracks will not receive MIDI data until Sonar is restarted (Sonar completely froze up once as a result of this and I had to kill it and restart)
- Undo and redo had unexpected results after I selected 2 takes and "Bounced to Clip".   
- Takes moving themselves unexpectedly between lanes when opening the step sequencer for a take
- A "flattened take" can't be opened in the step sequencer
- Unable to view the piano roll in "drum hits" mode because I don't have a pointless drum map set up
- Unable to easily rename notes or create aliases for notes in the piano role view
- In the PRV, the "track pane" only shows the single track and not the takes
- Half of the drawing tools (sine, triangle, etc) won't work in the controller section of the piano roll 
- Smart Tool handles MIDI takes like comps, clicking in the take selects it as the active comp which is unwanted
 
Bakers - PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE spend some time and improve and/or debug the existing MIDI features of SONAR.
 
I really want to be a happy SONAR user since I like the layout in general and I like the ProChannel and ARA integration.  

rlared
I just found this thread and wanted to add my 2 cents.  
 
I wanted to accomplish something simple today, which is to loop record to a single MIDI track with Addictive Drums and a physical MIDI controller.  All I can say is: What an extremely un-intuitive and negative experience.  All I want to do is loop record to assemble a single MIDI track with the drums.  Instead I ended up with my creativity stopped in its tracks and considering uninstalling SONAR and moving to another DAW.  
 
 
 
I encountered the following problems in an 30-minute long session:
- Sonar created new takes for each pass regardless of what settings I had in preferences
- Undo and redo had unexpected results after I selected 2 takes and "Bounced to Clip".   
- Takes moving themselves unexpectedly between lanes when opening the step sequencer for a take
- A "flattened take" can't be opened in the step sequencer
 
Bakers - PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE spend some time and improve and/or debug the existing MIDI features of SONAR.
 
I really want to be a happy SONAR user since I like the layout in general and I like the ProChannel and ARA integration.  

This is the most mind boggling omission that I have ever seen in Sonar.   There should be some simple way to compose midi data in a loop without the creation of a new take lane on each subsequent pass.  Since this thread was created,  I've been experimenting with other DAWS,  and as far as midi loop recording goes,  I can verify that Studio One 3,  Cubase,  and Tracktion all allow you to pick and choose if you want take lanes on every pass or not.
 

kb420
This is the most mind boggling omission that I have ever seen in Sonar.   There should be some simple way to compose midi data in a loop without the creation of a new take lane on each subsequent pass.  Since this thread was created,  I've been experimenting with other DAWS,  and as far as midi loop recording goes,  I can verify that Studio One 3,  Cubase,  and Tracktion all allow you to pick and choose if you want take lanes on every pass or not.
 

Just turn lanes off in preferences.
I even posted a video on the previous page.
Judging by your previous take lane rants, im not sure you really care though.

chuckebaby

kb420
This is the most mind boggling omission that I have ever seen in Sonar.   There should be some simple way to compose midi data in a loop without the creation of a new take lane on each subsequent pass.  Since this thread was created,  I've been experimenting with other DAWS,  and as far as midi loop recording goes,  I can verify that Studio One 3,  Cubase,  and Tracktion all allow you to pick and choose if you want take lanes on every pass or not.
 

Just turn lanes off in preferences.
I even posted a video on the previous page.
Judging by your previous take lane rants, im not sure you really care though.

I've seen your video,  but I don't think you really understand what I'm saying.  You can't turn take "lanes off" in Sonar.  If the lanes were truly off,  you wouldn't need to "bounce to clip" like you did in your video.   Here is a video of Studio One 3 and how it handles midi loop recording:  
 
https://youtu.be/T7paoat_dWk?t=2m41s
 
In Studio One 3,  you can record different takes just as you can in Sonar,  but you can also toggle the take lanes off by setting two different record preferences {one is called "Record Mix" instead of "Record Takes",  the other is to uncheck "Record Takes to Layers"}.  You'll notice that there is no need to bounce to clips,  and all of the midi data is automatically merged in to one consolidated clip and all of the midi notes are clearly visible in the clip.
 
 I appreciate your response,  and I sincerely hope my previous rants didn't offend you.  That was not my intent at all.  Before Sonar had comping and take lanes,  Sonar behaved just like this by default.  I would just like the option of going back to that for midi loop recording.
 
 

rlared
I just found this thread and wanted to add my 2 cents.  
 
I wanted to accomplish something simple today, which is to loop record to a single MIDI track with Addictive Drums and a physical MIDI controller.  All I can say is: What an extremely un-intuitive and negative experience.  All I want to do is loop record to assemble a single MIDI track with the drums.  Instead I ended up with my creativity stopped in its tracks and considering uninstalling SONAR and moving to another DAW.  
 
I always try to stay positive on posts but today I really am frustrated because I decided to pay the $200 for lifetime updates and there are still just so many MIDI things that are buggy or broken.  I am running the latest Sonar version and I am very knowledgeable about computers and so please understand I'm not some random novice user who hasn't read the instructions.  
 
I encountered the following problems in an 30-minute long session:
- Sonar created new takes for each pass regardless of what settings I had in preferences
- If I turn off my USB MIDI controller in an open session and then turn it back on again, even though Sonar sees it as a device and it can be selected as input, the tracks will not receive MIDI data until Sonar is restarted (Sonar completely froze up once as a result of this and I had to kill it and restart)
- Undo and redo had unexpected results after I selected 2 takes and "Bounced to Clip".   
- Takes moving themselves unexpectedly between lanes when opening the step sequencer for a take
- A "flattened take" can't be opened in the step sequencer
- Unable to view the piano roll in "drum hits" mode because I don't have a pointless drum map set up
- Unable to easily rename notes or create aliases for notes in the piano role view
- In the PRV, the "track pane" only shows the single track and not the takes
- Half of the drawing tools (sine, triangle, etc) won't work in the controller section of the piano roll 
- Smart Tool handles MIDI takes like comps, clicking in the take selects it as the active comp which is unwanted
 
Bakers - PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE spend some time and improve and/or debug the existing MIDI features of SONAR.
 
I really want to be a happy SONAR user since I like the layout in general and I like the ProChannel and ARA integration.  

I totally agree that creating a new clip for each pass, with no option to "overdub" on the same clip, is ridiculous. I came to Sonar after a spell with Pro Tools, which has "MIDI Merge," and was shocked that I couldn't do what seemed like such a fundamental and essential feature for anyone wanting to build up a drum part incrementally on loop. Then someone pointed out that you can just lasso all the clips and bounce them to a single clip. I was marginally happy with this but it still seems like an unnecessary workaround, and the fact that Cakewalk seemed to think that ending up with a bunch of stacked clips would be more popular than overdubbing to one clip really baffled me. 
 
I can't say I'm familiar with your other problems except the fact that some of the drawing tools won't work in controller lanes. In fact I find controller lanes to be so poorly designed and awkward to use that I don't use them unless it's some straightforward editing of velocities. It looks like a feature of the program that hasn't been touched since the early 2000's, in fact a lot of today's Sonar has this kind of uncomfortable clash between modern and ancient (kind of like Quickbooks), which gives the user the impression that he/she is using an outdated program that's had multiple coats of paint slapped on top of it. 
 
A huge proportion of the home producer market these days is budding young EDM/hip hop artists whose music is largely synth and/or sample based. Therefore I think that to compete with the most popular DAW's for this genre, Cakewalk has a lot more work to be done before the program feels as slick as something like Abelton in the whole synth/sampler/MIDI area. Sometimes I feel like I'm fighting against the program instead of being creative and that's not good. 
 
Having said that, they have made some tremendous improvements over the past year, including fixing a lot of niggling bugs and shortcomings which were complained about for years, like not being able to add custom labels to automation lanes. So I'm confident that we're headed in the right direction. I'm also confident that if I switched to another DAW I'd probably be happy for a few weeks before finding a whole different set of bugs and shortcomings to contend with. 
 
Please report those issues though, it's always worth it. 

sharke
 

I totally agree that creating a new clip for each pass, with no option to "overdub" on the same clip, is ridiculous. I came to Sonar after a spell with Pro Tools, which has "MIDI Merge," and was shocked that I couldn't do what seemed like such a fundamental and essential feature for anyone wanting to build up a drum part incrementally on loop. Then someone pointed out that you can just lasso all the clips and bounce them to a single clip. I was marginally happy with this but it still seems like an unnecessary workaround, and the fact that Cakewalk seemed to think that ending up with a bunch of stacked clips would be more popular than overdubbing to one clip really baffled me. 
 
I can't say I'm familiar with your other problems except the fact that some of the drawing tools won't work in controller lanes. In fact I find controller lanes to be so poorly designed and awkward to use that I don't use them unless it's some straightforward editing of velocities. It looks like a feature of the program that hasn't been touched since the early 2000's, in fact a lot of today's Sonar has this kind of uncomfortable clash between modern and ancient (kind of like Quickbooks), which gives the user the impression that he/she is using an outdated program that's had multiple coats of paint slapped on top of it. 
 
A huge proportion of the home producer market these days is budding young EDM/hip hop artists whose music is largely synth and/or sample based. Therefore I think that to compete with the most popular DAW's for this genre, Cakewalk has a lot more work to be done before the program feels as slick as something like Abelton in the whole synth/sampler/MIDI area. Sometimes I feel like I'm fighting against the program instead of being creative and that's not good. 
 

 
Well said.  I understand exactly how you feel,  and I agree 100%.
 

The 'comp clip' in the parent track behaves like a single 'merged' clip, and it's so easy to bounce to clips or flatten comp, I really don't see how this is such a showstopper for anyone. I wouldn't object to having the option, but personally, I would almost never choose to overdub to the same clip; editing and arranging MIDI drums is much easier with different kit pieces in different lanes.
 
Here are a few quick examples of things you can't do with a merged clip:
 
- Slip-edit and then groove clip different parts to start/end/repeat at different intervals.
- Split, copy, cut, paste, drag and mute chunks of individual parts in the track view to build an arrangement.
- Try out different patterns of the same part.
- Have all hi-hat or hand drum articulations kept together but easily isolated from other parts.
- Apply MIDI FX to individual parts as Clip FX.

brundlefly
The 'comp clip' in the parent track behaves like a single 'merged' clip, and it's so easy to bounce to clips or flatten comp, I really don't see how this is such a showstopper for anyone. I wouldn't object to having the option, but personally, I would almost never choose to overdub to the same clip; editing and arranging MIDI drums is much easier with different kit pieces in different lanes.
 
Here are a few quick examples of things you can't do with a merged clip:
 
- Slip-edit and then groove clip different parts to start/end/repeat at different intervals.
- Split, copy, cut, paste, drag and mute chunks of individual parts in the track view to build an arrangement.
- Try out different patterns of the same part.
- Have all hi-hat or hand drum articulations kept together but easily isolated from other parts.
- Apply MIDI FX to individual parts as Clip FX.

You said that you would never object to having the option,  but obviously Cakewalk has.   All of those items you mentioned can easily be done in slightly different ways very quickly with any good midi editor.  Don't get me wrong,  I certainly acknowledge the benefits of having take lanes,  especially when it comes to audio recording,  but I just think it's completely unnecessary when it comes to midi loop recording.  Midi editors and midi sequencers have been around for quite some time before the creation of take lanes and comping.   When it comes to programming midi drum sequences,  most of the more modern popular solutions,  namely Maschine,  the Akai Professional MPC line,  and Ableton Push don't use take lanes or comping at all.  Also,  there are plenty of DAWs that have have take lanes and comping,  but it seems as if Sonar is the only one that doesn't give the option of truly turning them off.
 
My frustration with Take Lanes in Sonar is simply how convoluted it is to clean up and consolidate the take lanes when all I really want is one neat and consolidated midi clip.  If you would like to take the time,  I challenge you to do the exact same midi sequence that's done in this video beginning at 2:41 in Sonar.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7paoat_dWk
 
He made a very simple drum beat with a kick, snare,  and closed hi hat.  He actually made 6 passes,  and the 6th pass (2nd hi hat pass) overlapped the 5th pass.  
 
If you were to do this in Sonar,  just as he did in Studio One 3,  most likely you ended up with 6 takes.  In your arrangement,  you would only see the midi data of the last take lane,  so you would really only be able to see a clip with a few closed hi hat notes.  The rest of the midi data would be covered,  or concealed by the last take.   Also you would have to comp the high hat takes because the 6th take would have overlapped the 5th take for a few notes.  
 
So,  for you to get a consolidated midi clip,  you would have to comp the last two takes because of the overlapped midi notes,  and then bounce all 6 takes to clips.  Doesn't that seem ridiculous for a simple 2 bar drum loop?  All he had to do in the video was hit record,  play the beat,  and hit stop,  and he's on to the next thing.  Doing this every time you want to record a basic midi clip can be very daunting. 
 
Please understand,  I'm not totally against take lanes,  but I am totally against no having the ability to turn them off.