Hi Guys
 
Continuing to have issues with my vocal tracks, but I'm determined to fix this problem if it's the last thing I do.  Frankly, of late I've been feeling like just taking a sledge hammer to all of my damned equipment.  I just finished another project today and I thought it was getting better but it's not.  I use an Avantone CV 12 tube condenser mic and it has like 9 different polar positions.  Two years ago I did intensive tests on ALL of the positions and they seem to all sound the same (crappy).  I've tried positioning the mic all kinds of different ways, including hanging it upside down.  Nothing helps.  So, my next plan is to try scanning frequencies using an EQ and trying to find the offending one and cutting it.  My question is-how do you recommend I do this?  I have several EQs including Waves RenEQ and the SSL Channel strip.  I'd like to scan through the frequencies slowly on ALL THE BANDS.  I have tried this with the SSL strip but I don't know if using the Ren would be better as it is a graphical EQ.  The Pro channel EQ has the best of both worlds (graphical & pots).  So, how do you think would be best to do this?  This seems to be a never ending excercise and if I don't find a solution soon I think I'll go off the deep end and do something very unsavory to my music room and all of the gear in it.  Seriously!  I've had it!!  Please help me!!
 
John B

You can do this with Cakes Eq or just about any other that allows you to narrow the frequency band sufficiently. Simply - narrow one of the bands and give it a sufficient boost - say + 12db. You might want to to lower the fader a bit - then sweep it during playback and you will find several regions that exhibit a lot of offending resonance. Once you pin point the frequency that invokes the ice pick - lower the gain to taste. You might find a couple of these resonant peeks. You can easily by-pass the band to compare pre and post eq processing.

Johnbee58
Hi Guys
 
Continuing to have issues with my vocal tracks, but I'm determined to fix this problem if it's the last thing I do.  Frankly, of late I've been feeling like just taking a sledge hammer to all of my damned equipment.  I just finished another project today and I thought it was getting better but it's not.  I use an Avantone CV 12 tube condenser mic and it has like 9 different polar positions.  Two years ago I did intensive tests on ALL of the positions and they seem to all sound the same (crappy).  I've tried positioning the mic all kinds of different ways, including hanging it upside down.  Nothing helps.  So, my next plan is to try scanning frequencies using an EQ and trying to find the offending one and cutting it.  My question is-how do you recommend I do this?  I have several EQs including Waves RenEQ and the SSL Channel strip.  I'd like to scan through the frequencies slowly on ALL THE BANDS.  I have tried this with the SSL strip but I don't know if using the Ren would be better as it is a graphical EQ.  The Pro channel EQ has the best of both worlds (graphical & pots).  So, how do you think would be best to do this?  This seems to be a never ending excercise and if I don't find a solution soon I think I'll go off the deep end and do something very unsavory to my music room and all of the gear in it.  Seriously!  I've had it!!  Please help me!!
 
John B

Okay, one of the issue you are going to experience is, there are lot of professionals and opinion out there.
I stopped reading that stuff, like taking Master Mix classes and all that crap.
However, what I have continued to do is to follow technical articles. Not articles about fixing things but what something does.

For example: I might read an article about Side Chaining or Changing the Tube in my Microphone but I wont read articles or watch videos that says, "Here is how to record vocals or How to Make Your Kick Sit In a Mix."


With that said here are a few tips for you:

1. You mentioned Microphone, lets start there, not all Mics will work on a particular signal.
   My recommendation, find some place that rent mics, rent a few and try them on your signal, then pick what works best for you.
2. Remove all of the effects from your audio and listen to the raw tracks, do they sound the way you want them to? Are there any distortion or undesired sound? For example: Mics have different SPL's, this will determine how loud of a signal you get to jam into it. You can test this by signing/playing loud passages while slowly moving close or away from the Mic. If you are still having distortion after playing only the raw tracks, then it is your source material.
3. Do you need to process anything? Some people believe you need to add EQ and compression.
   Compression was important in the 50's and 60's when you had to put 100 things into a few tracks.
   With automation you can get polished results without compression anything.
   My point is, if the source sounds great, then let it be, you do not need to add anything to it.
   Most people compress for color but do you need color?
4. Finally, Are you doing things right?
   I am assuming you are recording yourself? If so, try to record without pre-effects, meaning record as clean as possible. Make sure you are not clipping at the pre-amp stage.
   To help you with this, find someone, even a friend and let them sing into your rig, then adjust the settings until it sounds great. Then try singing or playing yourself, do you sound better?
   
   

Regarding the removal of bad frequency, is this low frequency, what kind of a sound are we talking about?
Remember, don't treat frequencies as sound, instead threat them simply as a spectrum in which a sound resides. Think of Frequency as a place, a room or a box that stores something.

Low noise and rumble will reside at around 80hz. Using a low shelf will get rid of this.

To conclude what distortion or noise are you experiencing?

By the way, I love your humor.

Rbh
You can do this with Cakes Eq or just about any other that allows you to narrow the frequency band sufficiently. Simply - narrow one of the bands and give it a sufficient boost - say + 12db. You might want to to lower the fader a bit - then sweep it during playback and you will find several regions that exhibit a lot of offending resonance. Once you pin point the frequency that invokes the ice pick - lower the gain to taste. You might find a couple of these resonant peeks. You can easily by-pass the band to compare pre and post eq processing.

+1 to this method.
 

Audioicon

Johnbee58
...I use an Avantone CV 12 tube condenser mic and it has like 9 different polar positions.  Two years ago I did intensive tests on ALL of the positions and they seem to all sound the same (crappy)....

...
You mentioned Microphone, lets start there, not all Mics will work on a particular signal.
My recommendation, find some place that rent mics, rent a few and try them on your signal, then pick what works best for you...

This is so true.
 
Regardless of how good your mic is, not all mics suit all vocalists - everyone is different.
 
I've got 4 condenser mics, and none of them match my vocals in most circumstances. I've ended up going back to my SM58 which sounds great.
 
Given the SM58 sounds so much better, I suspect an SM7 would suit me, but given the experiences with other mics, renting one and trying it out is sound advice.
 

The state of the music stores in my area is that most have moved out long ago.  You can't even buy guitar strings in Reading PA let alone rent mics.  I keep hoping to see a Guitar Center pop up someday but I'm not holding my breath.
 
I THINK it's a frequency that's the offender, but it could also be a reverb, but then again the signal, even dry, sounds crappy so that's what leads me to believe it's a frequency.  It's also hard to describe but it sounds like a low frequency kind of rumble.  I'll get a sample together soon and post it.  Thanks so much!
 
JB

This video pretty much covers the basics of all the advice I've heard over the years on EQ'ing vocals:
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdDDVortvRU
 

How does your room sound? It could be comb filtering from wall reflections too, and EQ doesn't do a great job at fixing that. I'd say that's a pretty common reason for crappy sounding vocal recordings.

https://johnbowen.bandcamp.com/track/beyond-the-writing-on-the-wall
 
Here's a full song I just finished yesterday.  After giving my ears a well deserved break I came to the conclusion this morning that the vocals here don't sound half bad.  The song is in a comfortable range for me so there's no straining (at least not too much).  I used my Avantone CV12 mic here.  I also have a Peavey dynamic, an Apex condenser and a MEMS mic (a souvenir from ARC 2.0) which doesn't do a bad job of recording vocals either.  I used it on two previous projects.
The song above is kind of epic, but I'm open to review.  If, however, you wish to "cut to the chase" for the vocals, they start @ 0.42 and end @ 4:56.
As always, thanks!
JB

For harmonic material, Melda's MCharacter is one of the most useful tools out there for monophonic material. It is best when used on the audio prior to subsequent FX. Using a generic EQ on a "walking" frequency harmonic can unnecessarily dig into content you wish to keep.

My guess is your problem is what's behind your mic when you record...you are picking up too much room.  Isolate the mic more.  Try something like the product in the link below. but make sure what is behind you is treated also.  Trying to remove things (like frequencies) after the recording is harder than just getting a good recording from the get-go.
I have built my own isolation stands and they make a big difference.  If I can build them ANYONE can...trust me on that!
 
Good Luck.
 
https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/ReflexionX--se-electronics-reflexion-filter-by-portable-vocal-booth