• SONAR
  • Insane problems with this update (2016.12) *** Solved (for ME!) (p.18)
2016/12/08 15:27:38
Lance Riley [Cakewalk]
Thanks everyone for all the feedback related to this issue. We posted a statement in the stickies and are actively working to resolve it. It appears to be related to a Windows 10 update but I see a few reporting issues with Windows 7.
 
http://forum.cakewalk.com/FindPost/3526221
 
Please be patient while we work to resolve this issue. We hope to have an update soon.
2016/12/08 15:59:23
John
paul jenkins
.


Paul posting only a dot is not allowed. Its a violation of the rules. If you have something to say please say it. if you posted something and you wish to remove it a host can delete it. All you have to do is ask. 
2016/12/08 16:48:49
abacab
bitflipper
Interesting observation...or at least might be interesting to Noel & Co.
 
I ran Process Monitor to see if it might expose a clue as to what sonarplt.exe was doing at the moment of failure. To clean up the display, I set a number of filters so that only SONAR-related events were being logged. That took a few minutes. Then, with procmon running, I loaded CA-2A. No crash!
 
To see if this was a fluke, I repeated the test several times, rebooting between each try. In every instance, CA-2A did not trigger an exception as long as procmon was running. Without procmon running, I could consistently duplicate the crash by starting a new project and dragging CA-2A into an audio track.
 
Thinking maybe it was just that the time it took to set up procmon might be allowing some initialization process to complete, I rebooted, opened SONAR, started a new project and just let it sit there for 20 minutes. Dragged in CA-2A and crash! Every time.
 
There is a universal principle in science that you cannot measure anything without affecting the process you're measuring. Stick a voltmeter across a capacitor and you introduce a 10 megohm shunt that effects its time constant. Strap on a blood pressure cuff and a patient's blood pressure goes up. Check your tire pressure and you let some air out in the process. Check up on your kids and they're on their best behavior.


 
Schrödinger's cat?
 
BTW, that was some excellent detective work 
 
After reading Noel's explanation, which sounds reasonable, it left me wondering about one thing.  I am not having any problems, and I have all of the Windows updates current through November 2016 for my version of Windows 10 (Version 1511; OS Build 10586.679).  Does this mean that maybe the condition only occurs on the Anniversary Edition of Windows 10, version 1607?
2016/12/08 17:04:22
jackson white
@bitflipper
 
Confirming your observations on my system. Perhaps not quite so fortuitous given any trouble shooting expertise but surprising none the less.
 
Have to think it's now some combination of a Win10 update plus some core CW VST feature. I usually schedule any Win10 / Sonar updates to mitigate any potential issues, BUT run the Win10 update before updating Sonar to preempt any "Do you have the latest Win updates?". Since rolling back to the previous version of Sonar (which was rock solid) did NOT solve the problem AND it's only CW VSTs, have to think there's some dependency beyond basic system cfg. 
 
Don't see it as a VST3 issue as I was able to load a couple of 3rd party VST3s without crashing.
 
Will try a System Restore next. 
 
....
Just saw the sticky from Lance ... good to hear the experts are working on it. 
 
fwiw, did try a few more things, 
- VST Scan will appear to run with no issues when procmon is running. 
- Tried shutting down procmon and restarting Sonar | Open project with mixed results
> could always open the test project and run something
> a larger client project would open and run -sometimes- and other times would open (no crash) but not run. 
 
An update sounds better than continued thrashing of the system. 
2016/12/08 17:18:58
gmp
 
BitFlipper, thanks for the info. At first I thought Process Monitor was Task Manager, where you can look at the processes, etc. A Google search directed me to a download of it and it works in my situation also.
 
I have 2016.09 and have never updated to 2016.11, yet I started getting the same runtime errors last week also. After lots of trial and error I reverted to my 2016.09 image and did all the Win updates and was only getting the runtime error on a fresh boot and opening Plat for the first time. I've been ignoring the message and not closing it and everything works fine.
 
After I installed Process  Monitor, I rebooted and started Process  Monitor 1st and then opened Plat. Well it worked - no more runtime errors. Although it seemed Plat sure opened slower than usual. I closed Process Monitor and opened a 2nd CWP again with no error, so you're certainly on to something - great work!
2016/12/08 17:44:00
Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
abacab
After reading Noel's explanation, which sounds reasonable, it left me wondering about one thing.  I am not having any problems, and I have all of the Windows updates current through November 2016 for my version of Windows 10 (Version 1511; OS Build 10586.679).  Does this mean that maybe the condition only occurs on the Anniversary Edition of Windows 10, version 1607?




It is timing related so even with the same update you may or may not see the problem. Fortunately Bob's machine had a repro and that led us to the problem. That code has worked for years (decades) despite it being faulty so its definitely a recent environmental change that exposed the problem.
Bitflippers procmon test introduces a delay and circumvents the problem by the observer effect :)
2016/12/08 17:57:39
jackson white
I'm on Win 10 Pro Version 1511 OS Build 10586.679 with all the reported issues. As noted, it's probably something more. 
2016/12/08 18:22:04
abacab
jackson white
I'm on Win 10 Pro Version 1511 OS Build 10586.679 with all the reported issues. As noted, it's probably something more. 




Yup, that pretty much sums it up.  So what does that leave us with as far as something else?
 
"a recent environmental change that exposed the problem"
 
A Sonar update was issued that did not cause the timing issue.
 
But evidence indicates that the Sonar change "exposed" the unforeseen timing issue.  I can imagine that a timing issue that is resolved just by ProcMon running, might be slight enough that any variation in a user's PC environment may be the tipping point that problems could arise. 
 
Good to know that a fix is in the works!
 
Just imagine if you did not have Splat and had to buy an update to get a fix for a latent Windows issue?
 
Life is good
2016/12/08 20:21:57
dlesaux
2016/12/08 21:18:44
pentimentosound
I have Windows 10 Home version 10.0.14393 Build 14393 and have left the November update alone.... and I have been inserting CA-2A without issue. I am doing the same thing over and over to some old projects which are either Sonar 5.2 PE or X PE. Anyway, mostly they don't have any ProChannel stuff and I have to insert CA-2A, Gloss EQ and others like REMatrix Solo
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