I was thinking today, why not do parallel compression by just sending certain drums to an AUX bus with a compressor on it? The main signals still route to the Master bus, and the AUX bus goes there, too. Just blend them as desired, right?

Wrong, at least in my current state of Sonar (latest), which I'm hoping doesn't have problems. Phase issues galore result. I put Waves C6, Boost, Waves C4 and some other plugins in the AUX bus and all did the same. In most instances, the phase issue then remained with the plugin removed, as if the whole bus channel was irreversibly kicked into a latency mistake.

Shouldn't plugin latency compensation enjoy victory over any and all routings I choose?

Remember, this is when I do this with AUX sends, versus routing the entire drum track to the bus. When I do the latter, it is fine, but I obviously have no clean signal remaining...

Hope this can be explained, versus it being my system on the blink.

The experiment seems to be nothing more commonplace in structure than and AUX send bus setup, yet when I use verbs or other effects on the bus there are no phase issues. Do the dynamics plugins pose a challenge, or is my latency comp on the blink, plain and simple?

Thanks!

Try toggling the PDC button while SONAR is stopped. 

If you like having all of your drums routed to a separate drum bus (like I do), you can also do what you want by adding a separate compression bus then use SENDS on the drum tracks you want to compress. Route the output of the compression bus to your drum bus to retain control overall.
 
Dan
 

I would clarify Anderton's recommendation to 'ensure the PDC [Override] button is not engaged'. Aux tracks must have Input Echo engaged to pass signal, and the PDC button overrides PDC on input-monitored tracks. Ideally this would not apply to Aux tracks which don't have direct input of live signals from outside the box, but that might have been overlooked or the Bakers might have had had some other reason for not excluding them.
 
I'll see if I can reproduce the problem.

Anderton
Try toggling the PDC button while SONAR is stopped. 

Thank you, Craig.
 
Here's what I've got:
 
I setup an AUX bus for receiving ANY channels (not necessarily drums) and, prior to placing an effect in the bus, engage an AUX Send in a track.  The meters for the AUX now start showing the sent signal, and that is additive in the final mix and is fine in terms of phase.  When I add an effect such as a verb or any other commonly-used aux effect, things seem fine.
 
When I add a compressor (like Waves L6 and even the Cake limiter Boost11) the phase issues comes in immediately.
 
NOW (and important), when I deselect the effect itself in the bus, the phase cancellation stops.  BUT, if I deselect the entire bus effect master button, the phase issue returns, but with slightly different timing (sound is a bit different, implying different lag).
 
It's almost as if certain plugins are too complex for Sonar to get the delay compensation right, as if they are too intensive, processor-wise.  Then the bit about toggling the master aux effects button and having the phase issue return in modified fashion (while the effect is still in the aux box, but off) is entirely puzzling.
 
Samplitude Pro X does the same phase issue in the same scenario when the plugin is on, but cancels the problem upon ANY disabling action, whether the plugin itself or the entire plugin master in the AUX channel.
 
Puzzling stuff.  Hope it's not just my system. Reinstalled Sonar just to make sure.  No change.
 
Thanks for the interest and response, all!

dcumpian
If you like having all of your drums routed to a separate drum bus (like I do), you can also do what you want by adding a separate compression bus then use SENDS on the drum tracks you want to compress. Route the output of the compression bus to your drum bus to retain control overall.
 
Dan
 

Hi Dan, 
 
Inherent in your suggestion is the same scenario that gives me this issue: a bus that has a compressor on it to which a normal track is SENDING via Aux Send (vs. direct output assignment) its signal.  It just seems that with more complicated plugins, using them in an AUX Send situation creates timing issues with regards to the unsent signals still on the master bus.
 
In other words, when I have a processor in an AUX bus that uses heavy processing, it seems, Sonar doesn't get the delay compensation right, so having that processed sound mixed with unprocessed track sounds is off-time and creates phase issues.  UNLESS my system is screwed.
 
I'm using a nice Lynx audio interface on a 4GHz quad-core with tons of RAM.
 
Cheers,  Jon

It seems like pdc is falling down on the job. As a workaround / test I would try adding the same effects you have on the aux buss to the dry buss and set them so they don't process the sound.
 
Rocky

Whatever you do, be sure to restart the transport after making any changes. There's a known issue that toggling a send to a bus with a PDC-inducing FX on it during playback will not reset PDC as it should.
 
I tested your scenario, but using a different PDC-inducing plugin, and could not reproduce a problem with or without PDC Bypass enabled. In fact, having the Aux track between the track and the bus actally cured the issue with toggling the send on/off during playback. Subsequently, I found that having any input-monitored track sending to the PDC-inducing bus eliminated that problem with toggling sends during playback
 
So I'm thinking this is either plugin-specific ( I don't have those Wave plugins to test) or there's something else about the routing of the project that's manifesting the problem.
 

bluzdog
It seems like pdc is falling down on the job. As a workaround / test I would try adding the same effects you have on the aux buss to the dry buss and set them so they don't process the sound.
 
Rocky

 
Yes, and I think it is just with complex plugins.  If you guys don't have Waves multibands, try the Sonitus Multiband. It does the same thing.  Izotope Dynamics works.  Sonitus Compressor works.  I guess it's just the heavy stuff that flogs it.  That's interesting and a bit disappointing, because, if I'm correct, this means that parametric compressors, which can really be tweaked to make drums romp, may not be usable on my system for parallel compression.
 
I'll be curious to hear what others find.  You can use any single audio track for input.  Just create a bus, put a multiband compressor in there (even Boost11 -- a simple limiter -- did it), and see what you hear.
 
Thank you, community!

brundlefly
Whatever you do, be sure to restart the transport after making any changes. There's a known issue that toggling a send to a bus with a PDC-inducing FX on it during playback will not reset PDC as it should.
 
I tested your scenario, but using a different PDC-inducing plugin, and could not reproduce a problem with or without PDC Bypass enabled. In fact, having the Aux track between the track and the bus actally cured the issue with toggling the send on/off during playback. Subsequently, I found that having any input-monitored track sending to the PDC-inducing bus eliminated that problem with toggling sends during playback
 
So I'm thinking this is either plugin-specific ( I don't have those Wave plugins to test) or there's something else about the routing of the project that's manifesting the problem.
 

Wow, Brundle, what a privilege to have a person try this out.  Yes, with many of my plugins, things are fine.  Just seems to be with heavy ones.  If you have a full Sonar, you can try the Sonitus Multiband.  It is just as bad as the Waves heavies.  I look forward to hearing about it, and it is my blessing to have someone try this.
 
Even one audio track will do it.  Setup an AUX bus and send from the audio track, things will be fine, then add the Sonitus Multiband.  No additional transport stops or PDC toggling solves it.
 
If it indeed still works for you, would we think my soundcard (Lynx 2, which is pretty good, although older)?