• SONAR
  • There is STILL MIDI crosstalk in Sonar (p.2)
2016/02/15 22:48:24
SilkTone
And if that still doesn't make sense, CW's own documentation explains how it should work:
 
(name of MIDI input driver) > (MIDI Omni or MIDI ch 1-16). Choosing this option causes the track to record any MIDI channel coming from the named MIDI interface input driver, unless you choose a particular MIDI channel instead of MIDI Omni. Then the track will only record input that’s on the MIDI channel you chose, from the named input driver.

2016/02/15 23:11:56
Anderton
SilkTone
It is perfectly valid for a keyboard to have a split and send on multiple MIDI channels based on key zone. If that is what I want to record into one track then Sonar cannot do that. That is a pretty basic shortcoming for a DAW in 1995, let alone 2016.

 
If this comment is independent of the issue involving VSTi devices that generate MIDI out, I must not be understanding your problem. If I set up splits on a keyboard like the Korg M3 where the splits send data on multiple MIDI channels, I can record all of that into a single MIDI track in SONAR.
2016/02/15 23:17:31
SilkTone
Anderton
SilkTone
It is perfectly valid for a keyboard to have a split and send on multiple MIDI channels based on key zone. If that is what I want to record into one track then Sonar cannot do that. That is a pretty basic shortcoming for a DAW in 1995, let alone 2016.

 
If this comment is independent of the issue involving VSTi devices that generate MIDI out, I must not be understanding your problem. If I set up splits on a keyboard like the Korg M3 where the splits send data on multiple MIDI channels, I can record all of that into a single MIDI track in SONAR.



Yes, that plus the output of all other VSTis that happen to send MIDI out at the same time.
2016/02/16 02:20:03
brundlefly
SilkTone
brundlefly
I'm not seeing a problem. I set up:



This issue is very specific to VSTis generating MIDI events internally as opposed to playing back prerecorded MIDI clips. For instance Catanya and JamStix will reproduce this.



Yes, I know, that's why I used Blue Arp; it's generating new MIDI output from the MIDI input. I only added LoopBe to make more ways for things to go wrong. If you want me to take out everything but the keyboard and Arp as MIDI sources. I can do that.
2016/02/16 02:33:26
brundlefly
sharke
A little OT but I still don't understand why "none" doesn't just mean "none." 
 
Sometimes you don't want ANY MIDI reaching a track and it's ridiculous that you should have to be selecting anything but "none" to do this. 
 
Every time I insert Jamstix into a project and use its MIDI-out I encounter the familiar annoyance of having Jamstix playing a freaking crazy-ass bass line on another track until I set that track's MIDI input to my keyboard. Sort this out Cakewalk!

 
Disable 'Always Echo Current MIDI Track' in preferences, and you will be able to set None as input, and have it stick so long as input echo isn't enabled. Enabling input echo - either manually or by Auto-echo - automatically causes SONAR to set the input to All Inputs - Omni if you haven't deliberately chosen a particular input.
2016/02/16 02:39:36
SilkTone
Which VSTis do you have that generate MIDI events? Maybe we can try to set it up in the exact same way if you want to reproduce it.
 
If you have JamStix that would be great because I never re-installed Catanya on my new system, so JamStix might be all I have right now.
 
Basically, the brief steps are like this:
 
  1. In a new project, add JamStix and make sure to enable it's MIDI out in both Sonar and in JamStix itself.
  2. Add another drum VSTi that you want to drive with JamStix's MIDI output.
  3. Set the input of the other drum VSTi to JamStix's output.
  4. Insert another VSTi instrument (say a string synth or whatever). Set it's MIDI input to [your external keyboard] -> OMNI.
  5. Start recording MIDI on the synth in step 4 from your external MIDI keyboard.
 
If JamStix is sending MIDI events out, then those events will also be recorded on the MIDI track of the synth in step 5. It's input is clearly set to the external MIDI keyboard, and so it should only record MIDI events from the external keyboard.
2016/02/16 02:48:29
SilkTone
brundlefly
Disable 'Always Echo Current MIDI Track' in preferences, and you will be able to set None as input, and have it stick so long as input echo isn't enabled. Enabling input echo - either manually or by Auto-echo - automatically causes SONAR to set the input to All Inputs - Omni if you haven't deliberately chosen a particular input.



I like the auto echo feature, so what I did was I renamed an unused MIDI input port from my sound card to "Nothing". I then select it as an input to tracks that I don't want to send anything to. Now it acts the way None should act.
 
Also I just want to clarify something... A VSTi that "sends MIDI out" in this context doesn't mean sending MIDI outside of Sonar, it means sending MIDI output events from the VSTi back into Sonar so that it can be routed into another track to drive another VSTi (usually). All of it is still inside Sonar.
2016/02/16 02:56:39
Sanderxpander
By the way, I can completely confirm this "feature", when I use Maschine to record into Sonar via its midi out function it also plays every other midi/VSTi track I previously created unless I select an unused port AND channel. If I set the unrelated track to listen to my soundcard midi port OMNI, it still catches Maschine and if I set it to "none" it also does. I really have to select a specific channel I'm not using. Input echo seems unrelated by the way, it does it on any track. 
2016/02/16 03:08:36
SilkTone
Sanderxpander
By the way, I can completely confirm this "feature", when I use Maschine to record into Sonar via its midi out function it also plays every other midi/VSTi track I previously created unless I select an unused port AND channel. If I set the unrelated track to listen to my soundcard midi port OMNI, it still catches Maschine and if I set it to "none" it also does. I really have to select a specific channel I'm not using. Input echo seems unrelated by the way, it does it on any track.



Yes that is pretty much the bug. Now imagine you really wanted to record more than 1 MIDI channel into the same track from your keyboard. You basically can't because since you need to select OMNI on your keyboard input, it will also record the Machine MIDI.
2016/02/16 03:19:27
brundlefly
I don't have Catanya or Jamstix so I just re-tested with your old 'MIDIBugs' DLL. I still didn't see a problem with what got recorded on each track, though SONAR still shows the false 'confidence recording' indication of the live input on the track that's recording the VST MIDI Out.
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